ECT Born Again

[Jerry Shugart]

They still had to submit to water baptism.

To receive eternal life?

 

[musterion]

To receive eternal life?

Mark 16:16

Believe the Bible, Jerry, not baptist theology.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Mark 16:16

Believe the Bible, Jerry, not baptist theology.

According to your ideas the Lord Jesus was in error when he said the following to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

The Lord Jesus makes it plain that those who lived under the law received the following spiritual blessings by "believing" and nothing more:

"I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

"For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).​

"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).​

Now I will address Mark 16:16 and my interpretation of the words there do not contradict what the Lord Jesus said in the previous passages which I quoted:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mk.16:16).​

Here the Lord is not saying that a requirement for salvation is baptism with water, but instead He is describing those who will be saved. This is similiar to the following words of the Lord:

"And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life" (Mt.19:29).​

Here the Lord says that those who have forsaken their families will receive everlasting life, but surely no one will argue that this is a requirement for salvation. Instead, the Lord is merely describing many who will be saved. Therefore we can understand that at Mark 16:16 the Lord Jesus is merely describing those who will be saved. The words which follow Mark 16:16 demonstrate that the Lord is "describing" those who will be saved:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover" (Mk.16:17-18).​

John D. Grassmick writes, "Though the New Testament writers generally assume that under normal circumstances each believer will be baptized, 16:16 does not mean that baptism is a necessary requirement for personal salvation. The second half of the verse indicates by contrast that one who does not believe the gospel will be condemned by God (implied) in the day of final judgment (cf. 9:43-48). The basis for condemnation is unbelief, not the lack of any ritual observance...Thus the only requirement for personally appropriating God's salvation is faith in Him" (The Bible Knowledge Commentary; New Testament, 196).

If both "faith" and being "baptized with water" are requirements for salvation then the Lord Jesus would have said:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned and he that is baptized not shall be damned."

But that is not what He said.

Now it is your time to explain why "believing" was not enough to be saved in regard to the Jews who lived under the law despite the fact that the Lord Jesus made it plain that "believing" alone resulted in all of those spiritual blessings.

 

[john w]

Don't you know the difference between a "noun" and a "verb"?

Of course they are not the same word since the Greek word translated "born" at John 3:3 is a verb while the Greek word translated "rebirth" at Titus 3:5 is a "noun."

The Greek word translated "born" at John 3:3, which is a "verb," is gennaō and it means "to be born."

One of the meanings of the Greek word anōthen which is used at John 3:3 and which is an adverb is "again." That is the way the KJV translates it.

The Greek "noun" translated "rebirth" is the word paliggenesia, which is the combination of palin and genesis.

Genesis means "used of birth, nativity."

Palin means "joined to verbs of all sorts,it denotes renewal or repetition of the action."

Is the KJV translation in error?

No, I employed Strong's, and translate it as "born from above."

So, no one is "born again" according to my expert "the Greek" translation.


Why do you refer to anyone, as "born again," when Paul does not, and neither does "the Greek?" Why do you deny that Paul, members of the boc, are considered "miscarriages," "abortions," according to "the Greek," and that there has only been just one "church," in Genesis-Revelation, and why do you deny that the word means "assembly," "called out ones?" We see that you have no answer, to "the Hebrew," and "the Greek."

 

[john w]

Jerry will use just about any translation that serves his purpose for telling the story the way that he wants it told. He will even use the horrible NIV if he thinks that he can fool us.

He'll even become a Greek expert if needed.

Correct, which is the MO of bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, as they "prefer..like...use" a stack of bibles, not believing any one of them, correcting them all; when the bible does not support what they are attempting to "prove," does not support/validate their "doctrine," their "interpretation," what they think the book should say, they correct it, or rummage through their mess of bibles, that are covered by their lexicons, unicals, commentaries, Strong's, Domino's Pizza Menu,...................... and find one that supports their understanding. Correcting any bible, presupposes an authority over it, and they reject that the bible is to correct them, they reject that they are to submit to the bible, and instead they submitt the bible to their correction, to "hep" God out.

It is pretty simple.

Watch Jer correct me. Watch. It is a bible corrector/mystic/agnostic's addition, a malady, that has only one known cure.

 

[musterion]

According to your ideas the Lord Jesus was in error when he said the following to the Jews who lived under the law:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24)..​

Keep ignoring John 14:15, Jerry.

​

You are doing what Stam did by back-reading "faith alone" into John, even though it did not exist for Israel. It does for us today (Rom 3:21; Eph 2:8-9) but back then the repentant Israelite had to believe AND perform the priestly work of being water baptized - per Moses, per the Law - to be righteous. Hence Mark 16:16.

You can read that but you refuse to believe it. I won't waste time with someone who cherry picks verses in isolation when other verses in the same context don't mesh with your traditions.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No, I employed Strong's, and translate it as "born from above."

So, no one is "born again" according to my expert "the Greek" translation.

One of the meanings given by Strong's is "anew, over again."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G509&t=KJV

So you must think that the following translation from the King James Version is in error:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:3; KJV).​

Is that what you think?

Why do you refer to anyone, as "born again," when Paul does not, and neither does "the Greek?"

Here are Paul's own words in regard to how those in the Body of Christ are saved:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:4-5).​

I have already demonstrated that the Greek word translated "rebirth" means a "repetition of a birth" and that means "born again."

Why do you deny that Paul, members of the boc, are considered "miscarriages," "abortions," according to "the Greek," and that there has only been just one "church," in Genesis-Revelation, and why do you deny that the word means "assembly," "called out ones?" We see that you have no answer, to "the Hebrew," and "the Greek."

First of all, no one has even attempted to explain what Paul said in the following verse to those who are members of the Body of Christ:

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

The Greek word translated "begotten" speaks of a "birth." Do you deny that those in the Body of Christ were "born" in some sense by the gospel? Here Peter tells us exactly in what sense believers are born by the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

...and why do you deny that the word means "assembly," "called out ones?" We see that you have no answer, to "the Hebrew," and "the Greek."

I never denied that. In fact, I have always taught that the "assembly" or "church" spoken of at Acts 2 refers to a Jewish assembly and not the Body of Christ:

"Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church (ekklesia) daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47).​

The Greek word translated "church" is ekklesia and that word can be found in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the LXX). Joseph Henry Thayer says that one of the meanings of that word as found in the LXX is "the assembly of Israelites...esp. when gathered for sacred purposes" (Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 196).

Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christianity and a respected Bible scholar, wrote the following:

"Nor would the term 'Church' sound strange in Jewish ears. The same Greek word (ekklesia), as the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Qahal,' 'convocation,' 'the called,' occurs in the LXX. rendering of the Old Testament, and in 'the Wisdom of the Son of Sirach' and was apparently in familiar use at that time. In Hebrew use it referred to Israel, not in their national but in their religious unity" (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Book 3, Chapter 37, p.84).

According to Edersheim the Greek word translated "church" was in familiar use and "it referred to Israel...in their religious unity." I believe that is the meaning of the word as it is used at Acts 2.

 

[john w]

One of the meanings given by Strong's is "anew, over again."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G509&t=KJV

So you must think that the following translation from the King James Version is in error:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:3; KJV).​

Is that what you think?

No, you taught me this:No, I employed Strong's, and translate it as "born from above."

So, no one is "born again" according to my expert "the Greek" translation.

Here are Paul's own words in regard to how those in the Body of Christ are saved:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:4-5).​

I have already demonstrated that the Greek word translated "rebirth" means a "repetition of a birth" and that means "born again."

No-Paul never says members of the boc are "born again. " You replaced biblical words.

No, I employed "the Greek"-it means "born from above."

First of all, no one has even attempted to explain what Paul said in the following verse to those who are members of the Body of Christ:

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

The Greek word translated "begotten" speaks of a "birth." Do you deny that those in the Body of Christ were "born" in some sense by the gospel? Here Peter tells us exactly in what sense believers are born by the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

No-"the Greek" says "born from above."

You never did explain why you deny that the church in the wilderness is the boc, according to "the Greek," and why you deny that that Paul, members of the boc, are abortions.

I never denied that. In fact, I have always taught that the "assembly" or "church" spoken of at Acts 2 refers to a Jewish assembly and not the Body of Christ:

"Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church (ekklesia) daily such as should be saved" (Acts 2:47).​

The Greek word translated "church" is ekklesia and that word can be found in the Greek version of the Old Testament (the LXX). Joseph Henry Thayer says that one of the meanings of that word as found in the LXX is "the assembly of Israelites...esp. when gathered for sacred purposes" (Joseph Henry Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, 196).

Alfred Edersheim, a Jewish convert to Christianity and a respected Bible scholar, wrote the following:

"Nor would the term 'Church' sound strange in Jewish ears. The same Greek word (ekklesia), as the equivalent of the Hebrew 'Qahal,' 'convocation,' 'the called,' occurs in the LXX. rendering of the Old Testament, and in 'the Wisdom of the Son of Sirach' and was apparently in familiar use at that time. In Hebrew use it referred to Israel, not in their national but in their religious unity" (Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah, Book 3, Chapter 37, p.84).

According to Edersheim the Greek word translated "church" was in familiar use and "it referred to Israel...in their religious unity." I believe that is the meaning of the word as it is used at Acts 2.

You deny that "the Greek" proves that there is just one "church" in Genesis-Revelation.Why do you deny that, according to "the Greek?" .

You taught us that-we learned that from you.


John 3 KJV
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


John 3:3 KJV....Strong's numbers indicating the Greek words:

Jesus <2424> answered <611> (5662) and <2532> said <2036> (5627) unto him <846>, Verily <281>, verily <281>, I say <3004> (5719) unto thee <4671>, Except <3362> a man <5100> be born <1080> (5686) again <509>, he cannot <1410> (5736) <3756> see <1492> (5629) the kingdom <932> of God <2316>.


I translate it as follows, employing Strong's::

Jesus answered and bid them Amen, Amen, I tell thee, If not anything bringforth from the first he cannot perceive the kingdom of the godly.


Nuttin' to this Strong's/"The Greek" game,Jer.


Why do you deny what "the Greek" says and means?

Fun!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Keep ignoring John 14:15, Jerry.

Where in that verse do we read that keeping the commandments was a requirement for salvation? If a Jew is going to be saved by keeping the commandments then he must keep them perfectly, because as James said, if a Jew broke one commandment he was "guilty of all" (Jas.2:10). Can you tell me how being guilty of all can contribute to anyone's salvation?

I won't waste time with someone who cherry picks verses in isolation when other verses in the same context don't mesh with your traditions.

What the Lord Jesus said in the following verses to the Jews who lived under the law regarding "salvation" is either true or false:

"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life" (Jn.5:24).​

The Lord Jesus makes it plain that those who lived under the law received the following spiritual blessings by "believing" and nothing more:

"I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die" (Jn.11:25-26).​

"For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day" (Jn.6:40).​

"Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life" (Jn.6:47).​

I say that what He said in those verses is absolutely true. You say that the Jews who lived under the law could not be saved apart from works so according to your ideas what the Lord Jesus said in those verses is false.

 

[john w]

There is no doubt whatsoever, that Jer denies what "the Greek" says, means:

John 3 KJV
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


John 3:3 KJV....Strong's numbers indicating the Greek words:

Jesus <2424> answered <611> (5662) and <2532> said <2036> (5627) unto him <846>, Verily <281>, verily <281>, I say <3004> (5719) unto thee <4671>, Except <3362> a man <5100> be born <1080> (5686) again <509>, he cannot <1410> (5736) <3756> see <1492> (5629) the kingdom <932> of God <2316>.


I translate it as follows, employing Strong's "the Greek:":

Jesus answered and bid them Amen, Amen, I tell thee, If not anything bringforth from the first, he cannot perceive the kingdom of the godly.

or,

Jesus answered and bid them Amen, Amen, I tell thee, If not anything bringforth from above, he cannot perceive the kingdom of the godly.

Whatever you "prefer," like."


Bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, like Jer, taught us that. "Believe" does not even enter their thought process.

Nuttin' to this Strong's/"The Greek" game,Jer.


Why do you deny what "the Greek" says and means?We see you have no answers, "to what
the Lord says."

Fun!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No, you taught me this:No, I employed Strong's, and translate it as "born from above."

One of the meanings given by Strong's to the word translated "again" in the KJV at John 3:3 is "anew, over again."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...ngs=G509&t=KJV

So you believe that the following translation from the king James Bible is in error:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:3; KJV).​

Once you believed that the KJV is without error so now you must think that it does have at least one error.

No-Paul never says members of the boc are "born again. " You replaced biblical words.

You still not been able to believe that the Greek word translated "rebirth" in the following passage Paul addressed to those in the Body of Christ speaks of someone being born again:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:4-5).​

You also ignored the following words of Paul which are addressed to those in the Body of Christ that I quoted and my comments on it:

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

The Greek word translated "begotten" speaks of a "birth." Do you deny that those in the Body of Christ were "born" in some sense by the gospel? Here Peter tells us exactly in what sense believers are born by the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Besides that, after those in the Body of Christ are raptured then they will always be with the Lord Jesus:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever" (1 Thess.4:16-17).​

So when the Lord Jesus returns to usher in the earthly kingdom those in the Body of Christ will be with Him and they can only return with Him if they are "born again" because only those who have been "born again" can enter the kingdom (Jn.3:3,5).

 

[john w]

One of the meanings given by Strong's to the word translated "again" in the KJV at John 3:3 is "anew, over again."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang...ngs=G509&t=KJV

So you believe that the following translation from the king James Bible is in error:

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" (Jn.3:3; KJV).​

Once you believed that the KJV is without error so now you must think that it does have at least one error.



You still not been able to believe that the Greek word translated "rebirth" in the following passage Paul addressed to those in the Body of Christ speaks of someone being born again:

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:4-5).​

You also ignored the following words of Paul which are addressed to those in the Body of Christ that I quoted and my comments on it:

"for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel" (1 Cor.4:15).​

The Greek word translated "begotten" speaks of a "birth." Do you deny that those in the Body of Christ were "born" in some sense by the gospel? Here Peter tells us exactly in what sense believers are born by the gospel:

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God...And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you" (1 Pet.1:23,25).​

Besides that, after those in the Body of Christ are raptured then they will always be with the Lord Jesus:

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever" (1 Thess.4:16-17).​

So when the Lord Jesus returns to usher in the earthly kingdom those in the Body of Christ will be with Him and they can only return with Him if they are "born again" because only those who have been "born again" can enter the kingdom (Jn.3:3,5).

There is no doubt whatsoever, that Jer denies what "the Greek" says, ignores what "the Greek" means:

John 3 KJV
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.


John 3:3 KJV....Strong's numbers indicating the Greek words:

Jesus <2424> answered <611> (5662) and <2532> said <2036> (5627) unto him <846>, Verily <281>, verily <281>, I say <3004> (5719) unto thee <4671>, Except <3362> a man <5100> be born <1080> (5686) again <509>, he cannot <1410> (5736) <3756> see <1492> (5629) the kingdom <932> of God <2316>.


I translate it as follows, employing Strong's "the Greek:":

Jesus answered and bid them Amen, Amen, I tell thee, If not anything bringforth from the first, he cannot perceive the kingdom of the godly.

or,

Jesus answered and bid them Amen, Amen, I tell thee, If not anything bringforth from above, he cannot perceive the kingdom of the godly.

Whatever you "prefer," like."


Bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, like Jer, taught us that. "Believe" does not even enter their thought process.

Nuttin' to this Strong's/"The Greek" game,Jer.


Why do you deny/ignore what "the Greek" says and means?We see you have no answers, "to what the Lord says."

Fun!

Thayer: e;ktrwma, evktrwtoj, to, (evktitrw,skw to cause or to suffer abortion; like e;kbrwma from evkbibrw,skw), an abortion, abortive birth; an untimely birth: 1 Cor. 15:8 KJV

Why do you deny that members of the boc are abortions, like Paul, or miscarriages, or stillborn children, by ignoring "the Greek?" Why do you deny, ignore that "the Greek" says "the church in the wilderness" is the church now?

We see that you are running and hiding, bible corrector/agnostic/mystic, and have no answer, as to what "the Greek" and the Lord says.

 

[glorydaz]

Now it is your time to explain why "believing" was not enough to be saved in regard to the Jews who lived under the law despite the fact that the Lord Jesus made it plain that "believing" alone resulted in all of those spiritual blessings.

Believing whatever the Lord requires of you, Jerry. For some reason, you don't see that the Lord required different things from different people. The Jews understood what was required of them. We Gentiles understand what is required of us. There is a difference.

Do you think believing the Lord exists is adequate for anyone? That seems to be what you're saying.

 

[john w]

Believing whatever the Lord requires of you, Jerry. For some reason, you don't see that the Lord required different things from different people. The Jews understood what was required of them. We Gentiles understand what is required of us. There is a difference.

Do you think believing the Lord exists is adequate for anyone? That seems to be what you're saying.

Jer uses his deceptive debating ploy in every thread, such as ,"The Lord Jesus makes it plain....Don't you believe the bible?....Don't you believe in what the Lord Jesus says here?....There is no doubt whatsoever....It is clear...."

Thus, not only do I stay clear of debating bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, such as Jer, as they can "prove" anything they want, I also stay clear of clowns, that employ the above; I do not take him seriously, and most of TOl does not either, explaining why most of his "threads," which are disingenuous, are ignored, and laughed at. Most find him quite amusing, but harmless, like Preterism/Barbituaritism.

 

[glorydaz]

Jer uses his deceptive debating ploy in every thread, such as ,"The Lord Jesus makes it plain....Don't you believe the bible?....Don't you believe in what the Lord Jesus says here?....There is no doubt whatsoever....It is clear...."

Thus, not only do I stay clear of debating bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, such as Jer, as they can "prove" anything they want, I also stay clear of clowns, that employ the above; I do not take him seriously, and most of TOl does not either, explaining why most of his "threads," which are disingenuous, are ignored, and laughed at. Most find him quite amusing, but harmless, like Preterism/Barbituaritism.

Well, it certainly isn't helping anyone with being able to rightly divide scripture. We see enough problems with that already. :sigh:

 

[john w]

Well, it certainly isn't helping anyone with being able to rightly divide scripture. We see enough problems with that already. :sigh:

Yes, G of D, as Jer "pushes" them towards his Acts 1-2 "morphing," as "it all says the same thing."

 

[glorydaz]

Yes, G of D, as Jer "pushes" them towards his Acts 1-2 "morphing," as "it all says the same thing."

Yeah, it's all the same.

Joshua 5:3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Bible correctors/mystics/agnostics, like Jer, taught us that. "Believe" does not even enter their thought process.

My honesty has been questioned and now I am being called an "agnostic" and a "mystic," mainly because I happen to believe what we read here:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

Those who oppose me refuse to give their interpretation of the meaning of these words. Is it because they just can't understand what is being said? Your guess is as good as mine but it is curious that they continue to refuse to give their interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16.

 

[john w]

My honesty has been questioned and now I am being called an "agnostic" and a "mystic," mainly because I happen to believe what we read here:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

Those who oppose me refuse to give their interpretation of the meaning of these words. Is it because they just can't understand what is being said? Your guess is as good as mine but it is curious that they continue to refuse to give their interpretation of the meaning of John 3:16.

1.Bible corrector/mystic/agnostic-pay attention.

And you don't believe any bible, correcting them all, as you "prefer, like" a bible/verse, IF it agrees with your doctrine, supports your doctrine, validates it, agrees with what you think it should say, "read;" if it does not, you either correct it, or find a bible(s) that has the verse written as you "prefer."

We know.


And you confuse objective revelation, given by objective words, with illumination/understanding/interpretation.

2. Don't you believe the bible, and what the Lord said (fill in the blank), and what "the Greek" says? Why do you ignore it?


You taught all of us that debating ploy/gimmick/technique-we learned it from you.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Believing whatever the Lord requires of you, Jerry. For some reason, you don't see that the Lord required different things from different people.

What does the Lord Jesus require for those in the Body of Christ?:

"For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness" (1 Thess.2:4-7).​

That is what the Lord Jesus requires of those in the Body of Christ because those are His commandments. But at the same time keeping those commandments are not a "requirement" for salvation because we read the following:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" (Jn.3:16).​

You do know what the word "whoever" means, don't you glorydaz?