Theology Club: Bob Enyart's "The Plot" is he right?

heir

heir

TOL Subscriber
SaulToPaul said:
Well, that settles it.
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This is a five year old thread with the last post until he came trolling over, four years old. I'm not sure why he likes to bring attention to the fact that his position ignores "these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee" and also refuses to acknowledge the difference between "now I send thee" and "will send thee" (except that he's a narcissistic, passive aggressive type person).

He also has Paul a rebellious apostle ("sometimes stubborn Paul" and "no business there") much like the religious, denominational system sometimes speak of Peter. The lengths some men will go to deny that Paul went where he was told to go and didn't go where he was told not to by the Holy Ghost and was not a prisoner of reiteration, but a remnant, Jew first gatherer in the Acts provoking ministry and later a prisoner of Jesus Christ for us Gentiles given the dispensation of the grace of God to usward.
 
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
What does Bob say about the Hebrew epistles?

Is the doctrine found in those epistles for those in the Body of Christ?

Thanks!
 
way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
What does Bob say about the Hebrew epistles?

Is the doctrine found in those epistles for those in the Body of Christ?

Thanks!
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from Bob Enyarts The Plot page 123

When faith alone is the mechanism for receiving grace, then works-for-grace becomes an impediment.
Works were celebrated throughout the Old Testament, the Gospels, the Circumcision Epistles (Hebrews,
Peter, James, John, and Jude), and Revelation. Hence, those who miss the transition from law to grace do
not expect God to actually denounce works.

listen
http://kgov.com/bel/20141204
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Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Does Bob say anything about the following words of Paul where he makes it plain that those who were saved under the law were saved by grace through faith?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​
 
D

Danoh

New member
heir said:
This is a five year old thread with the last post until he came trolling over, four years old. I'm not sure why he likes to bring attention to the fact that his position ignores "these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee" and also refuses to acknowledge the difference between "now I send thee" and "will send thee" (except that he's a narcissistic, passive aggressive type person).

He also has Paul a rebellious apostle ("sometimes stubborn Paul" and "no business there") much like the religious, denominational system sometimes speak of Peter. The lengths some men will go to deny that Paul went where he was told to go and didn't go where he was told not to by the Holy Ghost and was not a prisoner of reiteration, but a remnant, Jew first gatherer in the Acts provoking ministry and later a prisoner of Jesus Christ for us Gentiles given the dispensation of the grace of God to usward.
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My point in the following will be lost on you, but here goes.

1 The post of mine you are responding to is over a month old.

Yet here you are, stirring it up, a month later.

But as I have already noted, my point in saying this to you will be lost on you.

2 You are that poor at properly discerning a thing.

Partly due to your self-blinding animosity.

And partly due to your obvious double-standard (for I don't see you raising a fuss over a very old post one of your pals recently resurrected - you high-fived that one).

Again, the post of mine you are responding to is over a month old.

Get a clue.
 
way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Does Bob say anything about the following words of Paul where he makes it plain that those who were saved under the law were saved by grace through faith?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​
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from Bob Enyarts The Plot chapter 7 page 127

Paul emphasizes that Abraham believed (only) and it was accounted to him for righteousness. However,
was this before or after Abraham was circumcised? Paul points out this question as a vital matter. For if
Abraham was already circumcised, then Paul’s point about him being justified by faith alone would fail.
The point would fail because circumcision was a work God required. Without the work of circumcision
God would judge and not justify a man (Gen. 17:14).



you can read chapter 1 here
.
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Gen 17:14 Any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
way 2 go said:
Here is what you quoted Bob saying:

Without the work of circumcision God would judge and not justify a man (Gen. 17:14).
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Does he answer the following passage which speaks of those who were circumcised?:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

The believers who were required to be circumcised according to the law were saved by grace through faith. If it is of "works" then it cannot be said to be of grace. So being circumcised was not a "work" in regard to salvation.
 
way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Does he answer the following passage which speaks of those who were circumcised?:
"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

The believers who were required to be circumcised according to the law were saved by grace through faith. If it is of "works" then it cannot be said to be of grace. So being circumcised was not a "work" in regard to salvation.
Click to expand...



from Bob Enyarts The Plot chapter 7 page 112

Did God save first century Jewish believers who were under the Covenant of Circumcision with grace
through the blood of Jesus Christ? Yes He did. However, did God also require that they circumcise and
keep the law? Yes He did.
The Old Testament is not a big hallucination.
God required that Israelites believe, and that they circumcise, and that they keep the law, and that they
offer sacrifices.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
way 2 go said:
Did God save first century Jewish believers who were under the Covenant of Circumcision with grace through the blood of Jesus Christ? Yes He did. However, did God also require that they circumcise and keep the law? Yes He did.
Click to expand...


Does Bob say that some people are saved by grace but in order to be saved those same people must do works?
 
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way 2 go

way 2 go

Well-known member
Jerry Shugart said:
Does Bob say that some people are saved by grace but in order to be saved those same people must do works?
Click to expand...

when ?
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from Bob Enyarts The Plot chapter 7 page 112

Did God save first century Jewish believers who were under the Covenant of Circumcision with grace
through the blood of Jesus Christ? Yes He did.
However, did God also require that they circumcise and keep the law? Yes He did.

The Old Testament is not a big hallucination.
God required that Israelites believe, and that they circumcise, and that they keep the law, and that they
offer sacrifices.
 
Jerry Shugart

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
way 2 go said:
Here is what Bob said:

God required that Israelites believe, and that they circumcise, and that they keep the law, and that they offer sacrifices.
Click to expand...

Is Bob speaking about the requirements for "salvation," that those who lived under the law had to keep the law in order to be saved?
 
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