And 2 Cor 3:7-14 explains why Israel was going to be set aside , during Moses time .
And 2 Cor 3:15 and 16 explains how Jews are being saved today .
dan p
Theology Club: Blinding of Israel
- Thread starter Tambora
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And 2 Cor 3:15 and 16 explains how Jews are being saved today .
dan p
glorydaz
Well-known member
Then, rather than today, shouldn't this be talking about that time in the future when all of Israel shall be saved?
2 Cor. 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
And I see Israel being set aside from what Moses , where it all began .
And 2 Cor 3:1-15 explain it all as does Isa 6:1-13 , Luke 13:6-9 , Matt 3:10 .
We see that in Rom 11:25 and that fulness from the Gentiles may come in . which already been 2000 years , then verse 26 kicks in and the following Greek words are in the Greek future tense , shall / be saved , and there shall come is also in the future tense and also shall turn away
is also in the future tense .
So verse 25 has not yet happened , the PAROUSIA ( coming ) of Christ for the body of Christ and Gal 1:4 speaks to the same thing Christ will deliver us from this present evil age ,
Hope this helps you .
dan p
musterion
Well-known member
It was the same as with those whose hearts God hardened: they hardened themselves against Him first.
Just look at Jews today. There's your answer.
ALL have a chance of hearing and believing but traditions get in the way, rendering one deaf and blind to God's saving truth. That isn't His fault.
Does God only blind Jews that have hardened themselves first?
musterion
Well-known member
Of course, else He's a corrupt hypocrite for condemning their unbelief. They'd rejected what they were able to understand, so further light was withheld. Spiritual blindness resulted. Christ said that's why He began speaking in parables.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Exactly. It was the same when God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
Besides, there have been lots of Jews who have been saved by hearing Paul's gospel.
The old gal who first preached the gospel to me, Ruth, was a "completed Jew"...as she labeled herself.
Only Jews?
glorydaz
Well-known member
Don't forget that Paul is speaking of the nation of Israel, not individuals.
Clearly there were some individual Jews who accepted Paul's gospel. Then they became part of the church of God.
musterion
Well-known member
Why are you doting about questions now?
I think we'd like to know what this Baal worship would look like today, that you say a believer can lose salvation over.
glorydaz
Well-known member
I think Tam is just in a bad mood. The donkey has kicked in.
glorydaz
Well-known member
Is Baal even a thing?
musterion
Well-known member
that's what I want her to tell us.
Think of it this way:
People (in this case, the Jews) were given light. They refused it, long enough for God to say, "Ok, you don't want the light, let me take it away from you, and give it to the Gentiles," Thus, by God taking away the light that they have refused, they have become blind, and will not be able to see until God brings back that light, at the fullness of hte Gentiles.
Al Sharin was (he went to be with the Lord a few years ago) a messianic Jew. Messianic Jews are Christians.
To answer your question: As a nation, they don't have a chance of seeing. But as individuals, they can still come to Christ.
musterion
Well-known member
Well...Christians, or saved? We know those two terms are not necessarily synonymous since most professing Christians are not saved (having believed other gospels).
There are messianics who take the Law quite seriously as necessary to please God, in addition to the work of Christ. They likely have never believed Paul's gospel of liberty and so are not saved.
Those among them who may possibly be saved are modern day Galatians, which is a shameful place to be.
Yep.
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Israel is individuals just as the Church is individuals.
Israel is a mini version of God's plan for the whole world, to being people to Him.
I thought ya'll read Paul.
Romans 11:4 ESV
(4) But what is God's reply to him? “I have kept for myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
Today, sure.
But not prior to Acts 9. Yes, it consisted of individuals, but God had a corporate relationship with her, not the individuals she consisted of.
Wrong.
Israel was to be a spokes-nation to the world, teaching the world about Him.
Arial
Active member
Yes. It is all one plan unfolding. The purpose of the plan? I know the one He showed us, and quite clearly----to rescue a people out of the kingdom of darkness and bring them into the kingdom of the Son. There are two kingdoms, the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light. King Jesus the Christ is King of the Kingdom of Light. It is ultimately the whole redeemed world, (at that time, the time of His second coming, there will be only the redeemed in the world. ) And He rules now from heaven and within the hearts and lives of those who are His, until the time of Satan's utter and final destruction. Then there will be one kingdom, the kingdom of Light. Col 1:13-14; Eph 2:1-9. Those whom He has redeemed are the people of His kingdom.