Bethlehem: 'out of thee shall he come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel'

[Elia]

John 7:42 KJV
(42) Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

Bs"d

JC was not from the seed of David. Therefore he was disqualified from being the messiah.

And he never was a ruler. So he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecy of Micha 5:

Micha 5:2-9; "But thou Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for NOW shall he be great unto the ends of the earth. And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men. And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword, and the land of Nimrod in the entrances thereof: thus shall he deliver us from the Assyrian, when he cometh into our land, and when he treadeth within our borders. And the remnant of Jacob shall be in the midst of many people as a dew from the LORD, as the showers upon the grass, that tarrieth not for man, nor waiteth for the sons of men. And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver. Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off."

Here we have very clearly physical redemption from earthly enemies: "And they shall waste the land of Assyria with the sword", "Thine hand shall be lifted up upon thine adversaries, and all thine enemies shall be cut off." These are very clear verses that can not be misinterpreted; when the messiah comes the Jewish enemies are going to be slaughtered. And the one coming forth from Bethlehem is to be a ruler in Israel, that is a king, or maybe nowadays a president, but not a wandering preacher and miracle healer.

Zacheriah 9:9-10; "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ***, and upon a colt the foal of an ***. And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

They say that he did ride on a donkey, like the whole Middle East in those days, but that is where it stops. He did not bring any peace, the battle bow, the horses and the chariots, symbols of war, were not cut off from Jerusalem, and his dominion was not from sea to sea and to the ends of the earth; as a matter of fact, he did not have any dominion at all.

In order to get around this problem, the Christian church invented the "second coming". However, nowhere in the Hebrew scriptures is it written that the messiah would come once, get himself killed, and come again in a second coming. This is a pure rationalization of Jesus' failure to function in any way as a messiah. Nowhere in any of the above prophecies does it indicate that there will be a gap of at least 2000 years between the birth of the messiah and the redemption. Nowhere does it speak about a messiah being tortured to death and coming back thousands of years later.

Jeremiah 23:5-6; "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."

Jeremiah 33:14-16: "IN THOSE DAYS AND AT THAT TIME, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. IN THOSE DAYS shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness."

When the branch of righteousness springs forth to David, when the messiah comes, THEN, IN THOSE DAYS, Judah will be saved and Jerusalem shall dwell safely. That means that it is impossible to squeeze in two thousand or more years between the coming of the messiah and the redemption of Judah and Jerusalem. Out goes the 'second coming'. However, there wasn't any redemption in the days of Jesus. Forty years after his death, in 70 CE, Jerusalem was totally destroyed by the Romans, the second Temple was burned down, and the Jews exiled. No way that the above prophecy was fulfilled.

.

Isaiah 11; "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious."

Also here we have a messiah who is going to kill the evil people: "And he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked." And after that we get the better world, when it says: "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them etc." This is what is supposed to happen, as soon as there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse (the father of King David) and a Branch shall grow out of his roots; that is as soon as the messiah comes. Nowhere here is mentioned that the messiah will be killed and that these prophecies will happen at least 2000 years later. On the contrary; when the messiah comes redemption comes. And also for this messianic prophecy you don't have to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist in order to see that it is not fulfilled. Nothing of this all was done by Jesus. Conclusion: He was not the messiah.


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[beameup]

Bs"d

I see you are not getting the point.

Read post #7 again, slowly. If necessary, multiple times. It is not so complicated.

Not interested in your "rabbinical" deceit and trickery. Go read your book of "fairy tales" and "old-wives-tales", the Talmud. Anyone with half a brain can check the clear meaning of a Hebrew word. "from eternity" means "from eternity". This verse was clearly understood to be Messianic, prior to the destruction of your religion in 70 A.D.

 

[eider]

John 7:42 KJV
(42) Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

Can anybody help me with this?
Yeshua BarYoseph was a Galilean Jew, of Galilean Jewish Parents.
The Galilee Jews were comparitively recent converts to Judaism, possibly from the Babylon incarceration era?
Therefore, could their bloodline, or pedigree extend back to David?
Joseph's bloodline doesn't count, of course, if he was not Yoseph's true father, and Mary's bloodline intrigues me, because I would not expect female bloodlines to have been so meticulously recorded or remembered.

I forget which bloodline includes the name Judas, but certainly one of them does, and this intrigues me because nowhere in the old testament is any 'Judas' recorded. I don't even think that Judas Iscariot's name is accurate, more probably Judah BarSimon, possibly nicknamed Kedora (professional-murderer?) or later on 'Sicario' am assassin of Romans, such a name not coined until the 'Zealot' era of about 60CE?

If any can provide any help with this I would be most obliged.
Can any of you translate Galilean Aramaic? I seek a word(s) for 'Hired Killer'.

Thankyou.

 

[beameup]

Can anybody help me with this?
Yeshua BarYoseph was a Galilean Jew, of Galilean Jewish Parents.
The Galilee Jews were comparitively recent converts to Judaism, possibly from the Babylon incarceration era?
Therefore, could their bloodline, or pedigree extend back to David?
Joseph's bloodline doesn't count, of course, if he was not Yoseph's true father, and Mary's bloodline intrigues me, because I would not expect female bloodlines to have been so meticulously recorded or remembered.

There was no Yeshua BarYoseph IMO - Judaism of that era believed in two "messiahs" - Messiah ben Yoseph and Messiah ben David. They were attempting to reconcile the "suffering servant" and the "glorious Messiah".
Nazareth was at a "crossroads" where there was a long history of cross-cultural interaction and learning. The name "Nazareth" probably has some Greek+Hebrew "roots". Joseph probably didn't even realize that he was the legal heir to the throne of David until it was revealed to him by the Angel, as his "line" had a "curse" on it from Jeconiah.
Mary's bloodline went through Nathan, so there was no "curse" and she was a direct descendent of King David. Jesus was the firstborn-male born in Joseph's household, so he was legally the son of Joseph and Mary. [As a "parallel", Josephus tells us that Jesse suspected that David was not his biological son and so he was mistreated and ignored and "sent out to pasture"].

It would be helpful to find the Hebrew names rather than the Greek version of the names used in the New Testament.

 

[eider]

There was no Yeshua BarYoseph IMO - Judaism of that era believed in two "messiahs" - Messiah ben Yoseph and Messiah ben David. They were attempting to reconcile the "suffering servant" and the "glorious Messiah".

Citation please?

Nazareth was at a "crossroads" where there was a long history of cross-cultural interaction and learning.

Citation please?

The name "Nazareth" probably has some Greek+Hebrew "roots".

Citation?

Joseph probably didn't even realize that he was the legal heir to the throne of David until it was revealed to him by the Angel, as his "line" had a "curse" on it from Jeconiah.

Any citations?

Mary's bloodline went through Nathan, so there was no "curse" and she was a direct descendent of King David. Jesus was the firstborn-male born in Joseph's household, so he was legally the son of Joseph and Mary.

So bloodline didn't matter? A mother's sion could inherit? Any citation for this?

It would be helpful to find the Hebrew names rather than the Greek version of the names used in the New Testament.

You have been quoting Hebrew titles instead of Aramaic ones, above. Yeshua BarYoseph is Aramaic, Yeshua BenYoseph would have been Judean/Hebrew. Joseph, Mary, all the disciples, Magdalene and all were Galilean, and this is mentioned in the NT. Do you need me to give you chapter and verse?

 

[Tambora]

JC was not from the seed of David.

Scripture says differently.

Luke 3:31-32 KJV
(31) Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
(32) Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,​

And he never was a ruler. So he didn't fulfil the messianic prophecy of Micha 5:

Not yet, as scripture says.

Luke 1:31-33 KJV​

(31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.​

(32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:​

(33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.​

1 Timothy 6:14-15 KJV​

(14) That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:​

(15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;





​

 

[daqq]

Can anybody help me with this?
Yeshua BarYoseph was a Galilean Jew, of Galilean Jewish Parents.
The Galilee Jews were comparitively recent converts to Judaism, possibly from the Babylon incarceration era?
Therefore, could their bloodline, or pedigree extend back to David?
Joseph's bloodline doesn't count, of course, if he was not Yoseph's true father, and Mary's bloodline intrigues me, because I would not expect female bloodlines to have been so meticulously recorded or remembered.

I forget which bloodline includes the name Judas, but certainly one of them does, and this intrigues me because nowhere in the old testament is any 'Judas' recorded. I don't even think that Judas Iscariot's name is accurate, more probably Judah BarSimon, possibly nicknamed Kedora (professional-murderer?) or later on 'Sicario' am assassin of Romans, such a name not coined until the 'Zealot' era of about 60CE?

If any can provide any help with this I would be most obliged.
Can any of you translate Galilean Aramaic? I seek a word(s) for 'Hired Killer'.

Thankyou.

The name Iskariot or Iskarioth is probably a word play on multiple levels as are most things. First off is the name Yssakar, (Issachar), and this name is not meant in the way of the whole tribe but rather likely that mentioned in 1 Chronicles 26:5, (see this post as to a possible reason why, [every man has his "son of perdition" or "Esau man" vessel of destruction]). Secondly Yssakar means something like "he will bring a reward" or "he will bring a price" because Sakar is "price". Sakar is used in the famous thirty pieces of silver passage which uses sakar for price. But when the Prophet says, "my price", the form is "skariy" which probably could have been pointed as either Sekariy, or Sikariy, (I'm not sure). See what I'm getting at? Within the context it makes more sense than anything else because, again, every man has his "price" and that will be the old man nature, that is, Esau man, the son of perdition, (whom Elohim hates because he walks according to the eyes, mind, and belly of the flesh, like the serpent from the beginning was cursed to walk upon/by its belly, and Esau man will sell his birthright for a bowl of soup to fill his belly).

Zechariah 11:12 KJV
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; [skariy] and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price [skariy] thirty pieces of silver.

 

[Elia]

Scripture says differently.

Luke 3:31-32 KJV
(31) Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
(32) Which was the son of Jesse, which was the son of Obed, which was the son of Booz, which was the son of Salmon, which was the son of Naasson,​

Bs"d

Scripture agrees with me: "23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,[d] the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathiah, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathiah, the son of Semei, the son of Joseph, the son of Judah, 27 the son of Joannas, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmodam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Jose, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonan, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menan, the son of Mattathah, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
Luke 3

So here we have the genealogy of Joseph, who, however, was not his real father.

And therefore JC was not in the male line a descendant of David, and therefore he was disqualified from being the messsiah.

Not yet, as scripture says.

So you are bringing unfulfilled messianic prophecies in order to prove that JC who didn't fulfil them was the messiah??

Luke 1:31-33 KJV​

(31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.​

(32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:​

(33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.​

1 Timothy 6:14-15 KJV​

(14) That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:​

(15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;​

Talking is cheap, people follow like sheep, even though there is nowhere to go.

Everybody can claim he is going to fulfil the messianic prophecies somewhere in the future.

Really fulfilling them is a lot more complicated than making false claims.

The messianic prophecies is not fulfilled, therefore the messiah didn't come yet.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19​

 

[Tambora]

The messianic prophecies is not fulfilled, therefore the messiah didn't come yet.

He came, and will come again to rule as scripture says.

 

[Tambora]

"23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,[d] the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathiah, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathiah, the son of Semei, the son of Joseph, the son of Judah, 27 the son of Joannas, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmodam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Jose, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonan, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menan, the son of Mattathah, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
Luke 3

So here we have the genealogy of Joseph, who, however, was not his real father.

Check again.

Matthew 1:1-16 KJV
(1) The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
(2) Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
(3) And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
(4) And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
(5) And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
(6) And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
(7) And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
(8) And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
(9) And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
(10) And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
(11) And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
(12) And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
(13) And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
(14) And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
(15) And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
(16) And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

 

[Ben Masada]

John 7:42 KJV Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?

What Scriptures are you talking about, the one Jesus always referred to as the Word of God aka the Tanach or the Scripture of Paul aka the NT?

Many Jews were from the seed of David and were born in Bethlehem but only David became a ruler in Israel. Now, for Jesus to have come from the seed of David, he had to be a biological son of Joseph who was the one from the Tribe of Judah. If he was not a biological son of Joseph, he was neither the Messiah nor the son of God according to Matthew 1:18. I know how confusing the thing becomes but let the blame rest in the NT.

 

[eider]

The name Iskariot or Iskarioth is probably a word play on multiple levels as are most things. First off is the name Yssakar, (Issachar), and this name is not meant in the way of the whole tribe but rather likely that mentioned in 1 Chronicles 26:5, (see this post as to a possible reason why, [every man has his "son of perdition" or "Esau man" vessel of destruction]). Secondly Yssakar means something like "he will bring a reward" or "he will bring a price" because Sakar is "price". Sakar is used in the famous thirty pieces of silver passage which uses sakar for price. But when the Prophet says, "my price", the form is "skariy" which probably could have been pointed as either Sekariy, or Sikariy, (I'm not sure). See what I'm getting at? Within the context it makes more sense than anything else because, again, every man has his "price" and that will be the old man nature, that is, Esau man, the son of perdition, (whom Elohim hates because he walks according to the eyes, mind, and belly of the flesh, like the serpent from the beginning was cursed to walk upon/by its belly, and Esau man will sell his birthright for a bowl of soup to fill his belly).

Zechariah 11:12 KJV
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; [skariy] and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price [skariy] thirty pieces of silver.

I copied the whole lot.
Strangely (to me) the Latin 'dagger-man or hitman' Sicario, and your 'done for money' Sikariy, whilst being two quite separate languages, could have been entangled by typical human convenience.

I like your Sikariy, and, get this, later on, when Jewish assassins were murdering Romans with those long daggers (sicarii) hidden within their clothing, and the Romams were calling these killers 'sicario' (AD60ish?), and the church was moving into Roman cities, how convenient for Christian Gentiles to convert your (Hebrew?) Sikariy into Sicario, as Judas' nickname....??

Since I think that Judas was in fact Judah (son of Simon, hence BarSimon) his nickname turned from Judah Sikariy (or close to that) into Judah Sicario, since it meant more to Latin speaking Gentiles.

If you say Judah Sicario about ten times, you end up calling this money-for-blood killer Judas Iscariot.

Please just confirm, is your Sikariy/Sekariy Hebrew? It must be, I guess. This could fit.

I've got another for you to play with. How about the disciple 'Simon the Zealot'....... we know that the zealots didn't appear until circa AD60-65 (?), so this Simon was nicknamed something that meant zealous by his disciple mates, (something in Aramaic?) which became 'zealot' later on, at about the same time as the dagger-men were operating in the crowds to kill chosen enemies. So what was Simon's nickname during his lifetime?

All the disciples had formal names (I've got over half of them) and they probably all had nicknames, like Rock, son of thunder(or violence), zealot, assassin, etc..... I would seek to find the whole lot......

Thankyou so much for your input. I know that I've picked it up and rushed off with it.... I'm just trying to fit it all together.

 

[daqq]

I copied the whole lot.
Strangely (to me) the Latin 'dagger-man or hitman' Sicario, and your 'done for money' Sikariy, whilst being two quite separate languages, could have been entangled by typical human convenience.

I like your Sikariy, and, get this, later on, when Jewish assassins were murdering Romans with those long daggers (sicarii) hidden within their clothing, and the Romams were calling these killers 'sicario' (AD60ish?), and the church was moving into Roman cities, how convenient for Christian Gentiles to convert your (Hebrew?) Sikariy into Sicario, as Judas' nickname....??

Since I think that Judas was in fact Judah (son of Simon, hence BarSimon) his nickname turned from Judah Sikariy (or close to that) into Judah Sicario, since it meant more to Latin speaking Gentiles.

If you say Judah Sicario about ten times, you end up calling this money-for-blood killer Judas Iscariot.

Please just confirm, is your Sikariy/Sekariy Hebrew? It must be, I guess. This could fit.

I've got another for you to play with. How about the disciple 'Simon the Zealot'....... we know that the zealots didn't appear until circa AD60-65 (?), so this Simon was nicknamed something that meant zealous by his disciple mates, (something in Aramaic?) which became 'zealot' later on, at about the same time as the dagger-men were operating in the crowds to kill chosen enemies. So what was Simon's nickname during his lifetime?

All the disciples had formal names (I've got over half of them) and they probably all had nicknames, like Rock, son of thunder(or violence), zealot, assassin, etc..... I would seek to find the whole lot......

Thankyou so much for your input. I know that I've picked it up and rushed off with it.... I'm just trying to fit it all together.

Well, don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that Judas was a Sicarii rebel: that is a given seeing how Yohanan was a rebel leader living in the desert, (all of the disciples of Yeshua came through Yohanan which is hinted at in Acts 1:21-22). As for Simon the Zealot there is a fine line between Jealous and Zealous, (Qana), as well as Simon Kananaios and Zelotes. There is debate over whether Simon καναναιος or κανανιτης should be understood as Simon the Canaanite or Simon the Cananæan, (as if perhaps from the town of Cana or Kana), because of the variants between the Textus Receptus, (which has κανανιτης), and the western texts, (see W/Hort), which more often apparently read καναναιος. But as I see it this is yet again more likely a multi-layer play on words because the Hebrew for Qana can mean zealous or jealous depending on the eye of the translator, (YHWH Qana!). So in the end Simon the Canaanite becomes Simon the Zealous, (Zealous for God in the good sense), and he thus received a name change when his own Judas son of perdition, (Yskarii, "he is my price"), went into destruction. This view can actually be understood from the way in which Yeshua says the following:

John 6:70-71 KJV
70 Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

But a strictly mechanical rendering with a slight twist, ("yourselves" which is a legitimate concept with the usage of υμων) reveals that something else may lay beneath the surface level understanding:

John 6:70 W/H
70 απεκριθη αυτοις ο ιησους ουκ εγω υμας τους δωδεκα εξελεξαμην και εξ υμων εις διαβολος εστιν
70 Answered them Yeshua, Have I not chosen you, the twelve, and one out of yourselves is a devil?

Judas may in fact represent one from the whole in the sense of being a portion of each of them, (1/12th), and that is also more likely because here the Master says he is a devil, (not "the Devil"). Then look what follows in the words of the author himself:

John 6:71 W/H
71 ελεγεν δε τον ιουδαν σιμωνος ισκαριωτου ουτος γαρ εμελλεν παραδιδοναι αυτον εις εκ των δωδεκα
71 But this he said of Yhudas Shimonos (Simon's) Yskariot, for the same was he that was about to betray him: one from of the twelve.

If this were in Hebrew then the name Yskariot or Yskarioth maybe could be considered a plural form because of the ending, (like Shabbatot is a plural form of Shabbat). One would not think so being that it is a name of a person, however, what if it is the name of an unclean spirit or a devil? Can they not be Legion and yet be spoken of in a singular manner as one? One lying spirit can fill the mouths of 450 prophets of Baal, (because testimony is spirit whether for the good or whether for the evil). Additionally it is likely that all of the disciples of Yeshua had either Judas, or Simon, or both names as portions of their names in one form or another; for example we know that early Syrian traditions also relate that the full name of Thomas was Judas Thomas, and Thomas is called Didumos, which means twin, and yet Thomas also means twin: the twin twin. :crackup:

The point being that every disciple has bad qualities, which are likened to entities, which must be removed. Yeshua likewise says to Peter: "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: but I have prayed for you, that your faithfulness fail not: and when you are converted, strengthen your brethren", (Luke 22:31-32). So, I say, one Simon went into destruction; but the other Simon was tried like gold and silver, and brought through the fire: in that day a new man was born into the kingdom of Elohim, in Messiah.

 

[eider]

Well, don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that Judas was a Sicarii rebel: that is a given seeing how Yohanan was a rebel leader living in the desert,.....................

Brilliant! All brilliant!
I have copied the whole post so that I can read it with care and try to take it all in.
Will reply later today.

Yohanan...... John the Baptist.... John the immerser? Oh yes. Up until now I have thought that about half of Yeshua's disciples had previously been with John. Philip from Bethsaida, Andrew BarJon and others.

I will come back.....

 

[eider]

Well, don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that Judas was a Sicarii rebel: that is a given seeing how Yohanan was a rebel leader living in the desert, (all of the disciples of Yeshua came through Yohanan which is hinted at in Acts 1:21-22). As for Simon the Zealot there is a fine line between Jealous and Zealous, (Qana), as well as Simon Kananaios and Zelotes. There is debate over whether Simon καναναιος or κανανιτης should be understood as Simon the Canaanite or Simon the Cananæan, (as if perhaps from the town of Cana or Kana), because of the variants between the Textus Receptus, (which has κανανιτης), and the western texts, (see W/Hort), which more often apparently read καναναιος. But as I see it this is yet again more likely a multi-layer play on words because the Hebrew for Qana can mean zealous or jealous depending on the eye of the translator, (YHWH Qana!). So in the end Simon the Canaanite becomes Simon the Zealous, (Zealous for God in the good sense), and he thus received a name change when his own Judas son of perdition, (Yskarii, "he is my price"), went into destruction. This view can actually be understood from the way in which Yeshua says the following:

John 6:70-71 KJV
70 Jesus answered them, Did not I choose you the twelve, and one of you is a devil?
71 Now he spake of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

But a strictly mechanical rendering with a slight twist, ("yourselves" which is a legitimate concept with the usage of υμων) reveals that something else may lay beneath the surface level understanding:

John 6:70 W/H
70 απεκριθη αυτοις ο ιησους ουκ εγω υμας τους δωδεκα εξελεξαμην και εξ υμων εις διαβολος εστιν
70 Answered them Yeshua, Have I not chosen you, the twelve, and one out of yourselves is a devil?

Judas may in fact represent one from the whole in the sense of being a portion of each of them, (1/12th), and that is also more likely because here the Master says he is a devil, (not "the Devil"). Then look what follows in the words of the author himself:

John 6:71 W/H
71 ελεγεν δε τον ιουδαν σιμωνος ισκαριωτου ουτος γαρ εμελλεν παραδιδοναι αυτον εις εκ των δωδεκα
71 But this he said of Yhudas Shimonos (Simon's) Yskariot, for the same was he that was about to betray him: one from of the twelve.

If this were in Hebrew then the name Yskariot or Yskarioth maybe could be considered a plural form because of the ending, (like Shabbatot is a plural form of Shabbat). One would not think so being that it is a name of a person, however, what if it is the name of an unclean spirit or a devil? Can they not be Legion and yet be spoken of in a singular manner as one? One lying spirit can fill the mouths of 450 prophets of Baal, (because testimony is spirit whether for the good or whether for the evil). Additionally it is likely that all of the disciples of Yeshua had either Judas, or Simon, or both names as portions of their names in one form or another; for example we know that early Syrian traditions also relate that the full name of Thomas was Judas Thomas, and Thomas is called Didumos, which means twin, and yet Thomas also means twin: the twin twin. :crackup:

The point being that every disciple has bad qualities, which are likened to entities, which must be removed. Yeshua likewise says to Peter: "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: but I have prayed for you, that your faithfulness fail not: and when you are converted, strengthen your brethren", (Luke 22:31-32). So, I say, one Simon went into destruction; but the other Simon was tried like gold and silver, and brought through the fire: in that day a new man was born into the kingdom of Elohim, in Messiah.

Hello again.
I have copied and am slowly digesting all that you have written. I have nothing to add to what you have already told me, nor can I debate any of it.
But can you tell me more about the twelve?
It seems that you are familiar with Hebrew and possibly Aramaic and Greek. Do you know the Aramaic word for 'Anchor'? Galilee anchors were well fashioned stones bored through for a rope. Could 'Cephas' have meant 'anchor' or 'anchor-man'?

Can you correct or add to any of the following?:-
THE DISCIPLES

Celcus, who hated Christianity wholeheartedly, wrote that the disciple-group consisted of 10 boatmen and a couple of tax gatherers............ all hard men. Could this be right?

Levi (Matthew):- Described as a publican in the NT, and probably ate and drank at the same places where Zebedee hung out, who got as close to the tax men as possible. Thus the disciples knew Levi well.

Judas Iscariot:- BarSimon....! Described as the bag man. He handled money before, and if Celcius was right then Judas was the other publican (taxation officer), possibly.(?)

Simon BarJonas(?). Boatman from the fishing village of Bethsaida. Nicknamed Cephas. Cephas was one hard bloke who favoured the short sword or Machaerus, which he used in NT reports.

Andrew BarJonas. Simon's brother and a boatman as well....... He was a follower of the desert dweller and revolutionary Yohanan, John the Immerser, who was arrested and executed for being a threat to Antipas's regimes in Perea and Galilee. Andrew was also an insurrectionist.

John BarZebeddee. Not a meek and mild spiritualist. A fighter. His nickname was Barounerge (spelling?) which could mean 'son of thunder' but which could mean 'son of violence' and the evangelists probably didn't like that. He wanted a place well-up in any new order which was won.

James BarZebeddee. Another son of violence? John's brother, and a boatman. Any Galilean boatman was a very hard man........ just to survive. He wanted to put down the corrupt upper classes.

Philip: I don't know his family name, but somebody might...? Boatman from Bethsaida = tough hard man. A supporter of Yohanan, John the immerser. Says it all.

Simon the Zealot: Now, from your previous post it looks as if Simon was one generation older than the other disciples. (?) I wonder if he survived the Sepphoris siege and defeat in 4BC? Almost definitely a killer if required.

James the lesser: James BarAlphaeus....... I don't know more...

Thaddeus: Thaddeus Bar Alphaeus...... wow! Are these two brothers? I don't know more.

Thomas Diddymas. Can't have been his real name........ Thomas Bar------?............anybody know more?
Nathaniel BarTalmai = Bartholomew = Nathanael son of Talmai? Tolomai?

 

[Elia]

There was no Yeshua BarYoseph IMO - Judaism of that era believed in two "messiahs" - Messiah ben Yoseph and Messiah ben David. They were attempting to reconcile the "suffering servant" and the "glorious Messiah".

Bs"d

The suffering servant of Isaiah 53 is not the messiah, it is ISRAEL.

For Biblical support for that fact look here: http://Isaiah53.notlong.com


"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

Check again.

Matthew 1:1-16 KJV
(1) The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.
(2) Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;
(3) And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;
(4) And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;
(5) And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;
(6) And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
(7) And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
(8) And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
(9) And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
(10) And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
(11) And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
(12) And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
(13) And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
(14) And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
(15) And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
(16) And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Bs"d

I checked again; and it didn't change, it is still the genealogy of JOSEPH:

"23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat,[d] the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Janna, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathiah, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathiah, the son of Semei, the son of Joseph, the son of Judah, 27 the son of Joannas, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmodam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Jose, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonan, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menan, the son of Mattathah, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
Luke 3

You see, genealogy of JOSEPH.

A genealogy of Mary is nowhere to be found in Scripture.

You won't find the name "Mary" anywhere in this chapter.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

Zechariah 11:12 KJV
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; [skariy] and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price [skariy] thirty pieces of silver.

Bs"d

Matthew 26:14-15 "Then one of the twelve, who is called Judas Iscariot, having gone unto the chief priests, said, `What are ye willing to give me, and I will deliver him up to you?' and they weighed out to him thirty silverlings,"

Matthew 27: "3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4 "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility." 5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. 8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

This OT text can by found in Zech 11:12 "I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter."

As we see here in Zechariah, there is no messiah to be seen who is being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. And no potters fields are being bought in Zechariah.
As a matter of fact, in all of this text in Zechariah is no potter to be found.

No potter to be found?

No potter to be found.

The above translation of Zechariah 11:12 is from the New International Version. It says that Zechariah threw the money to the "potter" in the Temple.
In the Hebrew is written "yotseer". That can mean "potter", but it can also mean "treasurer".
In the Temple weren't any potters sitting around. Who was sitting there, was a treasurer, who accepted the gifts for the Temple.
So Zechariah doesn't speak about a potter, but about a treasurer.
This fact is recognized by the Revised Standard Version, it says here "treasurer" in stead of "potter".
Also Youngs Literal Translation says here "treasurer", and also the Contemporary English Version says here "treasury".
The Stone Edition of the Tanach says: "HASHEM (literally: "The Name) said to me, "Throw it to the treasurer of the Precious Stronghold which I have divested from them". So I threw it into the Temple of HASHEM, to the treasurer."
Also the New World Translation of the Watch Tower Society gives a good translation: At that, J-e-h-o-v-a-h said to me: “Throw it to the treasury—the majestic value with which I have been valued from their standpoint.” Accordingly I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw it into the treasury at the house of J-e-h-o-v-a-h."

So what we see here, is that there is no "potter" in Zechariah, and that the whole NT story about buying land of a potter has no bearing whatsoever on the text in Zechariah.

Also we have here a clear proof that the NT text is so orchestrated that it looks as if it fulfills OT prophecies. But because of the fact that they make here another mistake in the translation, the set up is clear to see for everybody.

And there is more. Look again to Matthew 27 and see what the Christians won't tell you: "9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

So here we see that Matthew claims that this text comes from Jeremiah, when in truth, it comes from Zechariah.
Another slip up of the New Testament which is supposedly divinely inspired.

Matthew was not capable of naming the right prophet.
And this is supposed to "proof" that JC is the messiah.

Well, with friends like Matthew, you don't need enemies anymore.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[Elia]

Original Post:


It seems that there is absolutely NO "consensus" on ANY verse that could be construed to apply to MESSIAH. It then follows that YOU HAVE NO "MESSIAH",

Bs"d

Exactly, at the moment we don't have a messiah, and THE messiah didn't come yet.

or that any slick-tongued personage could fill the imaginary "position" created by post-70 A.D. "Judaism".

That concept of a "slick-tongued personage" filling that position in an imaginary way happened about 40 years before 70 CE.

The Jews don't accept slick-tongued personages, because for the Jews somebody claiming to be the messiah must fulfil the messianic prophecies.

They are not yet fulfilled, ergo: The messiah didn't come yet.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

 

[daqq]

Hello again.
I have copied and am slowly digesting all that you have written. I have nothing to add to what you have already told me, nor can I debate any of it.
But can you tell me more about the twelve?
It seems that you are familiar with Hebrew and possibly Aramaic and Greek. Do you know the Aramaic word for 'Anchor'? Galilee anchors were well fashioned stones bored through for a rope. Could 'Cephas' have meant 'anchor' or 'anchor-man'?

Can you correct or add to any of the following?:-
THE DISCIPLES

Celcus, who hated Christianity wholeheartedly, wrote that the disciple-group consisted of 10 boatmen and a couple of tax gatherers............ all hard men. Could this be right?

Levi (Matthew):- Described as a publican in the NT, and probably ate and drank at the same places where Zebedee hung out, who got as close to the tax men as possible. Thus the disciples knew Levi well.

Judas Iscariot:- BarSimon....! Described as the bag man. He handled money before, and if Celcius was right then Judas was the other publican (taxation officer), possibly.(?)

Simon BarJonas(?). Boatman from the fishing village of Bethsaida. Nicknamed Cephas. Cephas was one hard bloke who favoured the short sword or Machaerus, which he used in NT reports.

Andrew BarJonas. Simon's brother and a boatman as well....... He was a follower of the desert dweller and revolutionary Yohanan, John the Immerser, who was arrested and executed for being a threat to Antipas's regimes in Perea and Galilee. Andrew was also an insurrectionist.

John BarZebeddee. Not a meek and mild spiritualist. A fighter. His nickname was Barounerge (spelling?) which could mean 'son of thunder' but which could mean 'son of violence' and the evangelists probably didn't like that. He wanted a place well-up in any new order which was won.

James BarZebeddee. Another son of violence? John's brother, and a boatman. Any Galilean boatman was a very hard man........ just to survive. He wanted to put down the corrupt upper classes.

Philip: I don't know his family name, but somebody might...? Boatman from Bethsaida = tough hard man. A supporter of Yohanan, John the immerser. Says it all.

Simon the Zealot: Now, from your previous post it looks as if Simon was one generation older than the other disciples. (?) I wonder if he survived the Sepphoris siege and defeat in 4BC? Almost definitely a killer if required.

James the lesser: James BarAlphaeus....... I don't know more...

Thaddeus: Thaddeus Bar Alphaeus...... wow! Are these two brothers? I don't know more.

Thomas Diddymas. Can't have been his real name........ Thomas Bar------?............anybody know more?
Nathaniel BarTalmai = Bartholomew = Nathanael son of Talmai? Tolomai?

Hey Eider, ultimately I really do not go in that direction, (a purely physical historical understanding, though it is important), but I do know some good resources which I think you might appreciate. In fact once you begin to read through this one, which I will link below, many other things will begin to become apparent as far as what to search for and after that I think you will not have much problem finding what else you might decide to chase down. This one for starters though, just so you know, is not of the Trinitarian mindset, (don't know if that matters to you or not but just letting you know in case it does). Messiah Jesus and John the Baptist (Robert Eisler). Happy hunting.

Bs"d

Matthew 26:14-15 "Then one of the twelve, who is called Judas Iscariot, having gone unto the chief priests, said, `What are ye willing to give me, and I will deliver him up to you?' and they weighed out to him thirty silverlings,"

Matthew 27: "3 When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4 "I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood." "What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility." 5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. 6 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." 7 So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. 8 That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

This OT text can by found in Zech 11:12 "I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. 13 And the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter"-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter."

As we see here in Zechariah, there is no messiah to be seen who is being betrayed for 30 pieces of silver. And no potters fields are being bought in Zechariah.
As a matter of fact, in all of this text in Zechariah is no potter to be found.

No potter to be found?

No potter to be found.

The above translation of Zechariah 11:12 is from the New International Version. It says that Zechariah threw the money to the "potter" in the Temple.
In the Hebrew is written "yotseer". That can mean "potter", but it can also mean "treasurer".
In the Temple weren't any potters sitting around. Who was sitting there, was a treasurer, who accepted the gifts for the Temple.
So Zechariah doesn't speak about a potter, but about a treasurer.
This fact is recognized by the Revised Standard Version, it says here "treasurer" in stead of "potter".
Also Youngs Literal Translation says here "treasurer", and also the Contemporary English Version says here "treasury".
The Stone Edition of the Tanach says: "HASHEM (literally: "The Name) said to me, "Throw it to the treasurer of the Precious Stronghold which I have divested from them". So I threw it into the Temple of HASHEM, to the treasurer."
Also the New World Translation of the Watch Tower Society gives a good translation: At that, J-e-h-o-v-a-h said to me: “Throw it to the treasury—the majestic value with which I have been valued from their standpoint.” Accordingly I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw it into the treasury at the house of J-e-h-o-v-a-h."

So what we see here, is that there is no "potter" in Zechariah, and that the whole NT story about buying land of a potter has no bearing whatsoever on the text in Zechariah.

Also we have here a clear proof that the NT text is so orchestrated that it looks as if it fulfills OT prophecies. But because of the fact that they make here another mistake in the translation, the set up is clear to see for everybody.

And there is more. Look again to Matthew 27 and see what the Christians won't tell you: "9 Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10 and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."

So here we see that Matthew claims that this text comes from Jeremiah, when in truth, it comes from Zechariah.
Another slip up of the New Testament which is supposedly divinely inspired.

Matthew was not capable of naming the right prophet.
And this is supposed to "proof" that JC is the messiah.

Well, with friends like Matthew, you don't need enemies anymore.

"O Y-H-W-H, my strength and my fortress, my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say, 'Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things.' Will a man make gods for himself, which are not gods?"
Jeremiah 16:19

The answers to some of these things have been addressed elsewhere in one or more of the links provided above herein. However it is clear that you would not believe me even if I took three or four large posts to explain it all to you, (for the veil over the eyes, heart, and mind, concerning such things, is only done away in Messiah, that is, the Testimony of Yeshua Meshiah). Secondly you are placing your trust in the Masorete pointed Hebrew text which points you in the wrong direction concerning the word you say cannot be "potter" and this is clear by the fact that when read without the pointing the block letters mean potter, former, molder, and so on. Your fathers have therefore simply pointed you in the wrong direction. Thirdly most English translations do not recognize the true length of the quote from Zechariah in Matthew, (it is much shorter), and the fact that this Matthew is the same who was "appointed", (as the Matthew passage states), in the place of Judas according to the companion passage at the end of Acts 1. In the Matthew quote from Zechariah the quote ends before the mention of the children or sons of Yisrael because that portion is obviously not found anywhere in Jeremiah of Zechariah.

However I will give you one clue, and even that I know you will not believe so, therefore, one and only one: Yhudas Yskariy "off'ed" himself in the same place formerly known as the valley of the son of Hinnom, that is, Tophet, (the place of the Fall), and indeed, becoming headlong, he fell and burst asunder in the midst, and all the inwards gushed out. Therefore the prophecy both begins and ends in Jeremiah; and Matthew is therefore correct, and you are therefore blind.