Best Evidence for Evolution.
- Thread starter bob b
- Start date
Who are you?
Sigh. I guess I will just have to quote Wikipedia to you again.
There is no way that what they are proposing can ever be tested. They win only because they "borrow" the prestige which goes with real testable science.
If the foam doesn't exist then their theory will end up on the ash heap of history. But they are safe. There is no way to test for "quantum foam". It is like string theory, a bunch of equations whose variables can be diddled to fit anything. Some call this mathematical masturbation.
If you would take the time to read the professional historian accounts of the Galileo affair as I did for a research project, you would realize that the story has been sanitized to fit a modern political agenda. The Church was "under seige" at the time from the Protestant Reformation and the last thing the Pope needed was dissention over Aristotle's science. So even though Galileo and the Pope had been longtime friends Galileo had to be silenced for, among other things, breaking his written promise not to publish his ideas in a book, Dialogue of the Two World Systems (which I have read), a satire in which the buffoon character was widely thought to be a standin for the Pope.
Enough already Galileo. So Galileo was brought in for questioning and put under pressure (house arrest) to recant. His sentence was to be isolated in a friend's castle where he was ordered to see no visitors. But true to form he ignored the orders and continued to entertain visitors, many from far away lands, until he died.
Yes, some preachers claimed that the Bible contained passages which taught an "immovable Earth" but these kinds were not taken seriously by Galileo's many friends in the Church, those who were not preachers, but instead were the scientists of their day, like his friend, a monk who is credited with establishing the science of hydraulics and worked closely with Galileo on scientific projects. If you like I will post the passages which professional historians say were used by the preachers, so you can see how pitiful their "proof verses" really were.
So the Church ended up getting blamed for the "fixed Earth" concept of the pagan Aristotle. Bad idea for the Church to hitch their wagon to pagan science, which if history is any guide, always changes,
But the Church has come close to making the same mistake again by today hitching its wagon to the false science of evolution. We even have some people, even pastors and priests, twisting scripture once again to try to make it fit with the current ideas of men.
It's clear enough. Martin Luther, for example, objected to Copernicus, because he correctly argued that a moving Earth contradicted a literal reading of the Bible.
Bob is repeating Luther's error, by trying to make scripture literal in all places.
Bob is repeating Luther's error, by trying to make scripture literal in all places.
mighty_duck
New member
In all fairness, you can say a lot of things about Bob (and we regularly do
), but being an advocate of banning his opponents is not one of them. I don't recall a single such instance, even when he was a moderator.
I'll make the prediction that because of the hat tip to evolution by the RCC that Christians will be blamed for the whole evolution fiasco.
Because science doesn't support it. At least the life part it doesn't at all, and the universe mostly.
Evoken
New member
What do you mean by "hat tip"?
Oh yeah, evolution meaning random mutations plus natural selection is such a basis for aerospace. Perhaps bob b, if you had a long career in the life sciences you might have a better understanding and be able to get past your goddidit mentality.
Just a little bee that knows bob's tricks. Bob b is afraid of me because he know he will get stung!
What a sad old man, trying to confuse everyone with his big bang talk, as soon as you confront him on any of the hard math (which he doesn't understand) he will mock you for believing in any of it at all, no matter that he just tried to use the very same principles as a platform for his own explanations.
Ah yes, the true colors of the 'Science Lover'. Let's lump all of astrophysics in with Stirng Theory, it must all be "untestable". You're sad, go look up Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation on wikipedia.
And no, only you call it mathematical masturbation, the rest of us understand that mathematics is the only tool we have to model the physical world.
This from the famous speech from Pope John Paul II in 1996:
"In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII had already stated that there was no opposition between evolution and the doctrine of the faith about man and his vocation, on condition that one did not lose sight of several indisputable points."
"Today, almost half a century after the publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis." in the original French - "Aujourdhui, près dun demi-siècle après la parution de l'encyclique, de nouvelles connaissances conduisent à reconnaitre dans la théorie de l'évolution plus qu'une hypothèse."
Call it a complete acquiescence rather than a hat tip if you want. Either way, this will be expanded into an important foundational statement that Christians held the world in bondage to evolution. We may perhaps even have another "Galileo" that is a catalyst for the claim. Why not? It's exactly what happened with the view of an earth centric universe and the real Galileo.
That seems like a rather crazy misunderstanding of what orthodox Christians like the Pope think about it. We merely accept that it is consistent with God's creation. "Bondage to evolution?" You sound a little kinky, fellah.
According to some here, it is already happening. Catholics have assured us on this forum that evolution is taught in their schools. And some even tell us that Genesis actually teaches evolution.
Sounds to me like a grand and glorious repeat of the Galileo affair.
PlastikBuddha
New member
According to some here, it is already happening. Catholics have assured us on this forum that evolution is taught in their schools. And some even tell us that Genesis actually teaches evolution.
Sounds to me like a grand and glorious repeat of the Galileo affair.
You wish. :wave:
The desire to paint yourself as a martyr of science is heady, isn't it? One of the enlightened few, mocked by those who don't have the wit to break free from their bondage to the errors of conformity! Alas! Galileo had the proofs, YEC has yet to do anything but try to poke holes in evolution, assuming that if the modern theories of biology, geology, astronomy, and physics were to topple their creation story would be the only logical replacement. Not so much a battle of scientific theories as an assasination attempt. Comparing the ToE to a theologically conceived heliocentric universe invites ridicule.
Last edited:
Evoken
New member
Have you actually read the documents you are citing?
In bondage to evolution? Care to show where The Church has declared that all Catholics are bound to accept evolution?
Evo
noguru
Well-known member
Can it also be said that YECs are trying to hold the world in bondage to young earth creationism? :think:
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat its errors.
Galileo had only an analogy: the moons of Jupiter.
His opponents had real mathematical models which were able to predict the motions of the planets with great accuracy, something that Galileo's simple model was not able to do. Thus his science opponents with their more sophisticated mathematics had the stronger scientific position.
(Galileo rejected other schemes. His model assumed circular orbits, since the "perfection" of a circle was more in keeping with a perfect God).
Besides, Aristotle's science enjoyed the same prestigious position in that era that Einstein's science does today. Who are you little man to question the genius of Einstein and Aristotle?
And those who cling to Biblical literalism are doomed to never really understand the real world.
The moons of Jupiter were an analogy? As in not real? Get your self a telescope o great space systems engineer (ret'd).