Believing: Is it done BEFORE or AFTER one is in Christ?

[Jerry Shugart]

NO one can believe UNLESS he is in Christ, Jerry.

So according to your ideas a person is "in Christ" before he is saved. So according to you an unsaved is blessed "with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places":

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" (Eph.1:3).​

That is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard!

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

So why can't you defeat his reasoning? Do you know even less than what he knows?

Samie isn't as smart as he thinks he isn't.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

You also have a loose screw in your head you also speak in the third person, brother?

Only mimicking you. And, don't call me brother.

 

[glorydaz]

Jerry, again, I understand why you cannot even convince your own son. You don't understand what others tell you but instead insists on what you think others mean.

Yes, salvation is found ONLY in Christ because Jesus is the ONLY way to salvation. Yes, all in Christ are saved. They all were ALREADY saved. They were all born in Christ, hence born ALREADY saved.

Being born already in Christ, they are part of His Body, and they have His power to do SOMETHING instead of NOTHING. They can believe.

But if one refuses to believe, then he is overcome of the evil of unbelief. He must repent by overcoming that evil, and believe instead. Otherwise Christ will blot his name from the book of life.

Hence believing is done AFTER one is in Christ.

You're a bit of a ninny, aren't you?

I look out my window and see the rain. I hear the drops pattering in the puddles. I don't have to DO a thing to believe it's raining. I'm persuaded by what I see and hear.

 

[Samie]

So according to your ideas a person is "in Christ" before he is saved.

Well, No. That's according to the false idea of one who cannot even convince his own son.

My idea which you cannot understand until now is: people are born in Christ, hence born saved. And that includes you who either, sorry to say, are so dull you can't understand, or simply refuse to understand.

 

[glorydaz]

Well, No. That's according to the false idea of one who cannot even convince his own son.

My idea which you cannot understand until now is: people are born in Christ, hence born saved. And that includes you who either, sorry to say, are so dull you can't understand, or simply refuse to understand.

You can't win the argument with Jerry so you have to take ugly jabs at his discussions with his son. You need to stop doing that....it's not right, and I'm pretty sure it's against the rules. Your lib tactics show the smallness of your person. Stop it!

 

[Ktoyou]

seek, and you will find

 

[Tambora]

You can't win the argument with Jerry so you have to take ugly jabs at his discussions with his son. You need to stop doing that....it's not right, and I'm pretty sure it's against the rules. Your lib tactics show the smallness of your person. Stop it!

I agree.
And yes it is against TOL rules to bring up family members as an insult.
It was a low blow and should be avoided in the future.

 

[Samie]

You're a bit of a ninny, aren't you?

I look out my window and see the rain. I hear the drops pattering in the puddles. I don't have to DO a thing to believe it's raining. I'm persuaded by what I see and hear.

Apply that to believing, and let's see if you did not do a thing.

I'll wait miss ninny.

Or you can run away and hide. Your choice.

 

[Samie]

You can't win the argument with Jerry so you have to take ugly jabs at his discussions with his son. You need to stop doing that....it's not right, and I'm pretty sure it's against the rules. Your lib tactics show the smallness of your person. Stop it!

So you're admitting the smallness of your person by calling me a ninny?

And because your position jibes with Jerry, you want to act as the judge and then decide who wins or loss in our discussion?

Your glory dazz not amaze me, sister.

 

[Samie]

I agree.
And yes it is against TOL rules to bring up family members as an insult.
It was a low blow and should be avoided in the future.

I think it is not a low blow to Jerry when I said he cannot even convince his own son. I was simply referring to his style of simply ignoring what others have posted and simply insist on the meaning he wants to what others were posting, specifically to my own posts to him.

It could be that the style he uses in his discussion with me is the same style he uses in his discussion with his son. Reason why he can't convince even his own son.

I don't think I posted any bad report about his family in this forum.

Or you simply bring this issue up as your last recourse to silence me in your pity to Jerry who cannot defend the position you share with him? You can join him in refuting my position if you want to. I'll gladly accommodate you.

 

[Samie]

Or you can run away and hide. Your choice.

Well, well, well. She chose to run and hide.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I think it is not a low blow to Jerry when I said he cannot even convince his own son. I was simply referring to his style of simply ignoring what others have posted and simply insist on the meaning he wants to what others were posting, specifically to my own posts to him.

I see this all the time. When someone cannot answer the message they attack the messenger. And here is the message which you continue to refuse to answer:

So according to your ideas a person is "in Christ" before he is saved. Therefore, if you are right then we must believe that the unsaved are blessed "with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places":

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" (Eph.1:3).​

Wierd!

 

[Samie]

You can join him in refuting my position if you want to. I'll gladly accommodate you.

She doesn't want to. And Jerry's left alone.

 

[Samie]

I see this all the time. When someone cannot answer the message they attack the messenger. And here is the message which you continue to refuse to answer:

So according to your ideas a person is "in Christ" before he is saved. So according to you an unsaved is blessed "with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places":

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" (Eph.1:3).​

Wierd!

I have answered that before you asked. Problem is you don't understand and still thought you weren't answered.

People are born in Christ, Jerry. And to be born in Christ is to be born saved. And to be saved is to be blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ.

You still can't understand? Weird.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

People are born in Christ, Jerry. And to be born in Christ is to be born saved.

But you argue that being "in Christ" happens before a person believes.

Therefore, if you are right then when a person is "in Christ" they have not yet believed and therefore they are not yet saved.

So you contradict yourself when you say that "to be born in Christ is to be born saved."

 

[Samie]

But you argue that being "in Christ" happens before a person believes.

Therefore, if you are right then when a person is "in Christ" they have not yet believed and therefore they are not yet saved.

So you contradict yourself when you say that "to be born in Christ is to be born saved."

No. You contradict Scriptures by saying being saved happens AFTER one believes. That is works-based salvation. Unscriptural. Impossible to do. Believing is doable only by those already in Christ.

People are born in Christ, and hence born already saved. And then they can believe, which is overcoming the evil of unbelief. If they refuse to believe, then their names Christ will blot out from the book of life.

 

[Samie]

I think Jerry had been enlightened that it is impossible for people to believe when they are not in Christ Who Himself said that man can do NOTHING when NOT in Him.

 

[Sherman]

Well, No. That's according to the false idea of one who cannot even convince his own son.

My idea which you cannot understand until now is: people are born in Christ, hence born saved. And that includes you who either, sorry to say, are so dull you can't understand, or simply refuse to understand.

Attacking others over family members is not going to fly on TOL. Stop it.

 

[Samie]

Attacking others over family members is not going to fly on TOL. Stop it.

You have earlier sent me a PM having the same content as this. And I have readily responded.

If you are posting your PM public thinking that I did not respond to it, please take a look at your message box. Again, sorry. It won't happen again.