Well, it's nice to see Bob participating on TOL a bit more actively.
Before the Fall, did God refer to the earth's surface as part of heaven?
- Thread starter Bob Enyart
- Start date
Genesis 1:1 says that God created THE heaven and THE earth.
Strong implication that heaven and earth were separate. He created heaven and then earth. (No time frame given.)
Genesis 1:2 says that the earth became without form and void, darkness on the face of the deep, etc.
Whatever is happening after that should be taking place from the perspective of someone who is on the earth, not someone at a remote site as in heaven.
I gather from that that what is commonly called the creation story is actually the replenishment story. For some reason the earth's surface was totally destroyed (no time given) and God decided to replenish and refurbish it and He came here to do it.
The New Jerusalem, I believe, is the prophecy and promise of Jesus Who returns to establish His Kingdom on earth and it becomes part of heaven.
Hope this might help rather than confuse.
Strong implication that heaven and earth were separate. He created heaven and then earth. (No time frame given.)
Genesis 1:2 says that the earth became without form and void, darkness on the face of the deep, etc.
Whatever is happening after that should be taking place from the perspective of someone who is on the earth, not someone at a remote site as in heaven.
I gather from that that what is commonly called the creation story is actually the replenishment story. For some reason the earth's surface was totally destroyed (no time given) and God decided to replenish and refurbish it and He came here to do it.
The New Jerusalem, I believe, is the prophecy and promise of Jesus Who returns to establish His Kingdom on earth and it becomes part of heaven.
Hope this might help rather than confuse.
Yes, Genesis 1:28 says, "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it:"
He didn't say "fill" the earth or "plenish" the earth. He said to replenish it which suggests that it was previously filled.
I'm not saying I think it was previously filled. I'm just saying that verse has always made me wonder.
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No, but I'm familiar with it.
Do you deny that there was a vaper canopy? If yes, then what do you think the words "the waters above the firmament" refer to?
No. Bob, I don't deny that the waters under the earth could have caused the mountains to form rapidly. I just have a different theory as to what the "triggering mechanism" was. I don't think it had much to do with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil being cut down. If you're interested I'll post it here but it might take me a day or two to summarize it clearly.
When is your deadline for sending your copy to Walt Brown?
That being the case, something must have happened between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.
2Pe:3:3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe:3:4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe:3:5: For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old ([jesus]Gen 1:1[/jesus]), and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe:3:6: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: ([jesus]Gen 1:2[/jesus])
2Pe:3:7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now ([jesus]Gen 1:3 and on[/jesus]), by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. ([jesus]Revelation 21 & 22[/jesus])
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1] "Plenish" isn't a word.:nono:
2] I got this idea from an episode of Roseanne, of all places. It was Darlene's wedding. Her and David had written their own vows. One of the things Darlene said was about replenishing the earth, what we take from it. It sounds kind of hippieish, and it was meant that way on the show, but it made me think, especially after you brought up the fact that the verse said "replenish." What if God was merely telling them to replenish what they take? Especially since this was before they had to work the ground for food, and all that.
*coughfloodcough*
Peter suggests a worldwide flood. The flood in Noah's time was not worldwide.
Genesis 1:2 says the earth became without form and void. God did not create it that way.
Who says?
In what version?
KJV and Hebrew.
Genesis 8:9-12.
If the entire earth were flooded, it would be unlikely that the dove would return with a fresh olive leaf.
Unless you would like to tell me that Genesis 8:10 is another 7 literal days of yet another creation.
See post #35.
1] My KJV does not say "became."
2] The dove returned with the fresh leaf after the rain had subsided, and things had a chance to grow.
2] The dove returned with the fresh leaf after the rain had subsided, and things had a chance to grow.
Great! Look up the Hebrew from which the translation comes.
7days? That's pretty quick growth there, :Brandon:
It was 7 days?
Genesis 7:
4For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.
11In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.
17Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. 18The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. 19And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. 20The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. 21And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. 22All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit[a] of life, all that was on the dry land, died. 23So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive.
24And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.
4For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.
11In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. 12And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.
17Now the flood was on the earth forty days. The waters increased and lifted up the ark, and it rose high above the earth. 18The waters prevailed and greatly increased on the earth, and the ark moved about on the surface of the waters. 19And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. 20The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. 21And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. 22All in whose nostrils was the breath of the spirit[a] of life, all that was on the dry land, died. 23So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive.
24And the waters prevailed on the earth one hundred and fifty days.