bling said:
have repeatedly try to get you to explain it to me, but I am not looking for your conclusions which you have repeated many times, I do want your assumptions, and your support, and how my logic, assumptions and support are flawed, so I can make a change!
Bling, you will change if I show you are wrong? OK. I would do the same if I were proven wrong. Wise men love being corrected, and it is good to strive for wisdom.
Bling, I have gone for the throat on any idea that suggest God sinned by making it a necessary part of fulfilling objectives to love. And I showed you scripture proving God can't even tempt. Will you shed any belief you once had about sin being necessary to bring about love?
Bling, I never disagreed that forgiveness of sin doesn't inspire love, and the more forgiveness, the more inspiration. But sin doesn't bring about love, forgiveness does. No where in that train of thought should we ever derive that sin is needed for love. Nor can we say that with out forgiveness we cannot know love. It is just one way to know love, one of the many.
You ask for scripture for:
"Where does it say Adam had different flesh?"
"Had Adam not sinned, his decedents would not be prone to sin."
"I have not found scripture saying, it came down to us through Adam and /or Eve eating the fruit "
I think we can answer these all together. OK, we must first know what eating of the fruit did:
Gen 3:5 "For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,
knowing good and evil. "
Gen 3:22 "Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us,
to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”—"
So plainly, eating the fruit gives them knowledge of Good and Evil.
Now we must know where sin comes from.
Romans 5
12 Therefore, just as
through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— 13 (For
until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.
20
Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The verse talks about how Adam's disobedience brought death to all and how Jesus' obedience brought grace to all. We learn sin came to everyone because Adam sinned.
"...but sin is not imputed when there is no law."
The word "imputed" means ascribed to someone. Sin, where there is no law, is not ascribed to the sinner.
But there was no law when Adam sinned. Moses was years away, no law.. right? No, there was only one law.
Gen 2
16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
The law was do not eat of that tree. Well no one else did after Adam.
So if that was the only law, that would mean until the days of Moses, Adam was the only sinner, right? But death comes from sin. And people still died, right? So they had to be sinning? What law did they break?
"14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam"
Why? What was their sin? No law, no sin can be imputed, right?
It turns out there is another law, and a way to sin without knowing the law of Moses.
Romans 2
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14
for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law,
are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the
law written in their hearts, their
conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them).
There is a law for anyone who doesn't have the law, written in their hearts. It is their conscience, that little voice inside, telling them what is good and bad. Even though someone may not have the Bible and the Law, they still have their conscience, and they still go against it, and they still sin. And then they die.
So if you have no conscience about something, are you imputed for that sin if it were a sin? If you find out afterwards it was a sin, you are responsible for it. If you are ignorant of the law you are not.
Romans 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary,
I would not have known sin except through the law.8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire.
For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
knowing the law is an oppertunity for sin to produce desire, and desire is what gives birth to temptation, speaking from experience. And Sin comes out of temptation.
James 1
14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
What causes us to sin? The flesh, I.E. our bodies' desires and our other earthly desires as well:
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
Conclusion
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We sin because we have the flesh, which is earthly desires (i.e.Sexual desires, Love of Money, Love of Power, and other desires).
Desires lead to temptations and temptation leads to sin. Sin leads to death.
Sin produces all manner of evil desire by the knowledge of the law.
Knowledge of the law is inherited from Adam, who ate the tree that gave us knowledge of good and evil, a conscience, by eating the tree. For through one man, sin was introduced to the world.
Now everyone has a law in their heart, and that law is designed to keep us from sinning. But desires leading to temptations result in sin, and that to death.
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Why are things like they are?
His invisible attributes are those of love, doing right and good, being powerful, being just. And from creation, Adam, and everyone else, understood those. But instead of appreciating God for those things, they instead sought their own wisdom and desires. With their wisdom of good and evil, they thought they were wise, but they were fools. They ended up perverting what God meant for good and used it for evil. So God let them have their sins, that they loved so much.
Romans 1:
20 For since the
creation of the world His
invisible attributes are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because,
although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23
and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things.
24
Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions...........
God gave all his creation the ability to understand him. But the world would rather have it their own way. God intended the world to be with him, but instead they used that good and meant it for evil.
I will stop here. This is a small start, I hope you are beginning to see where and why I say the things I do.
I hope this helps, Blling.
