genuineoriginal
New member
I see you use the red letter edition.
Battle Royale XIV discussion thread
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
brandplucked
New member
Originally Posted by brandplucked View Post
Hi George. You are totally correct. "genuine original" and those like him couldn't show us a copy of "the" Greek that he honestly believes is or ever was the inerrant New Testament if his life depended on it.
He certainly has no "genuine original" to show us. He knows he doesn't, but that doesn't seem to stop him from trying to give others the false impression that he does.
OK, "genuineoriginal", prove me wrong. Show us a copy of this inerrant New Testament you SAY you believe in. Go ahead. Will you be one of the first bible agnostics here to actually answer the question? ( doubtful)
Hi George. You are totally correct. "genuine original" and those like him couldn't show us a copy of "the" Greek that he honestly believes is or ever was the inerrant New Testament if his life depended on it.
He certainly has no "genuine original" to show us. He knows he doesn't, but that doesn't seem to stop him from trying to give others the false impression that he does.
OK, "genuineoriginal", prove me wrong. Show us a copy of this inerrant New Testament you SAY you believe in. Go ahead. Will you be one of the first bible agnostics here to actually answer the question? ( doubtful)
Nope, you got it backwards.
As I have shown, KJVO was birthed by the SDA's.
It's because what the SDA's believe in the KJV, that they don't want to hear what a different version says because the other versions destroy the verse from the KJV that SDA is built around.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
Oh.
genuineoriginal
New member
It is written, let God be true, but every man a liar.
By extension, this applies to every translation of the Word of God, including the KJV.
Let the KJV translation be errant, but let God's Word be true.
This is why KJVO's are so annoying.
Most Christians are not KJVO, and when they tell you so, you can't resist making fun of whatever Bible they use.
The first book ever written advocating KJVO was by the Seventh Day Adventist Ben Wilkinson:
Prior to Wilkinson's book in 1930, no book exists on King James Onlyism.
KJVO is an "ism" founded by SDA's
genuineoriginal
New member
The Bible, yes even the KJV, has already given the answer, but you refuse to hear it.
You think the Word of God is something that you can hold in your hand.
But the Word of God is not something you can hold in your hand, as it is written, by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
It is also written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Why are you wanting to hold the Word of God in your hands?
You should be desiring to hear the Word of God and hold it in your heart.
That is something you will not be able to do as long as you keep making an idol of the KJV Bible.
brandplucked
New member
Welcome to the lang of personal mysticism
Welcome to the lang of personal mysticism
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandplucked
OK, "genuineoriginal", prove me wrong. Show us a copy of this inerrant New Testament you SAY you believe in. Go ahead. Will you be one of the first bible agnostics here to actually answer the question? ( doubtful)
Welcome to the La La Land of personal mysticism.
This is why all you bible agnostics like Bob Enyart continue to say the Word of God, instead of the word of God.
You know nothing about the Word of God (Jesus Christ) apart from this word of God you people really do not believe and have little reverence for.
Don't Confuse "the Word of God" with "the word of God"
Bible agnostics ( a = not + gnostic = to know) who do not know for sure what God may or may not have said in literally hundreds of different places in the same verses of todays Bible Babble Buffet versions on the market often confuse these two Biblical terms - "the Word of God" and "the word of God". *
I have seen this so many times that I finally decided to write an article about it so I can repost it instead of having to type out the same response again and again.
Note - If you think you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible and are not a bible agnostic, then take The Bible Agnostic Test and see if you know for sure what God wrote in His Book.
See "The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy = just more Evangelical mumbo jumbo signifying nothing"
http://brandplucked.webs.com/chicagostate.htm*
And if you think (as many affirm) that no doctrines are changed, then see Fake Bible Versions DO teach false doctrines - Links to examples
http://brandplucked.webs.com/fakebiblesdoctrine.htm*
*One such bible agnostic and unbeliever in the inerrancy of ANY Bible in any language recently posted the following:*
*"Where do you get the thought that the Word of God is a "real, tangible, in print, hold it in your hands and read, Book"? This is why KJV Only people can not have a logical discussion on the matter.* For you it must be a single hard copy book. The reality is that God gave us His very Word in other languages than English, this necessitates either learning Greek and Hebrew (I have studied Hebrew myself for 10 years and hope to start Greek soon) OR translating the original languages into our language." [End of comments]
*
There is so much muddle headed thinking in this man's statement that it is tough to know where to begin addressing his points.* First of all "the Word of God" is NOT the same as "the word of God".* The title "the Word" is found in the King James Bible 7 times; only 6 times in most modern Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET, Holman, etc.
*It is found in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..."
1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life."
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Revelation 19:13 "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."
The term "the Word" with a capital W refers to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the blessed Trinity. The Word existed from eternity, was incarnated as the Son of man/Son of God, lived a perfect life for 33 years on this earth, He gave us the words His Father had given him, was crucified on a cross at Calvary where He bore the sins of His people and paid for them with His own shed blood, rose from the dead three days later and ascended into heaven where He now sits at the right hand of God the Father. And He is coming again in power and glory to raise His redeemed saints from the dead and to set up His kingdom on this earth.
*
But "the word of God" did none of these things and is not a Person.* The "word of God" is His inspired, written revelation of both Who this Word of God is and what He did to redeem His people. And contrary to what our Bible critic said, it IS a real, tangible, hard copy Book you can actually hold in your hands, read and believe is the very words of the living God.
The written words of God tell us of our desperate need for a Saviour from sin, hell and damnation.* They also record Gods' dealings with His people and the surrounding nations during their long history and it tells us many things about future events. We know NOTHING about Who the Word of God is or what He did for us, apart from the written word of God; nothing.
Now, let's address a couple of other things this shallow thinking bible agnostic said in his post.* He stated "The reality is that God gave us His very Word in other languages than English, this necessitates either learning Greek and Hebrew."*
*
This man is a very confused individual. First of all, the Word is the Lord Jesus Christ and He is not a language like English or any other language. He is a Person revealed to us by means of God's written words in many languages.* I agree that the gospel (the written revelation of the saving grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ) is found in ANY bible version out there, no matter how corrupt it may be in many other ways. *
God can and does use any bible version to bring His people to faith in the Saviour - the Word of God.* But nobody seriously believes that versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NKJV, NET, Holman Standard etc. are the complete and inerrant words of God. Nobody, not even the people who keep churning them out one after another.
Secondly, this man who has NO complete and inerrant Bible in ANY language (and he knows he doesn't) now tells us that we need to learn Greek and Hebrew.* It seems that "The Blatantly Obvious" needs to be pointed out to these people over and over again, and hopefully, it will finally get through to them.*
*
THERE ARE NO "original autographs”. They do not exist and everybody knows that.* When Bible agnostics refer to "the" Hebrew and "the" Greek, they always fail to mention WHICH "the" Hebrew and "the" Greek they are referring to.
The Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET etc. often reject the clear Hebrew readings, and not even in the same places. If you look at the footnotes in versions like the NIV or ESV you will see note after note telling us things like "Some Hebrew mss. read...." or "One Hebrew mss. reads...." or "Most Hebrew mss. read...." or "The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain."*
And when we come to "the Greek" their case really begins to fall apart.* There are at least 30 different "the" Greek texts out there like those of Erasmus, Stephanus, Beza, Elziever, Westcott-Hort, the ever changing UBS/Nestle-Aland (now in its 28th edition and working on their 29th), Tischendorf, von Soden, Vogels, Merk, Bover or the Hodges - Farstad or perhaps the Robinson - Pierpoint Majority Texts - take your pick.* And none of them agree with each other, and several of them disagree by literally THOUSANDS OF WORDS.
*
It should also be pointed out that both the ancient biblical Hebrew and the biblical Greek are themselves archaic languages written in a form that is NOT spoken today in either Israel or Greece; the Hebrew speaking Jews and the native Greek speakers can understand them, but they do not speak or write that way today.
You will have to learn an entire new alphabet and language just to get half way proficient. They are also A LOT harder to understand that anything you are going to find in the English text of the Authorized King James Bible, and you are STILL going to end up with NO complete and inerrant Bible to believe in!
Do these bible agnostics ever bother to think their position through and follow the logic of where there arguments will lead them?* It seems they do not.
Only God knows for sure which readings, names, numbers, phrases and entire verses are the ones He originally inspired to be in His Book and only God can work in history to bring about the publication and printing of His written words in this book we call the Bible. *
We believe He has done this and can tell anyone where to get a copy of it for themselves. The bible agnostics and the "we need to learn Hebrew and Greek" promoters do not believe such a Book exists and certainly cannot tell you where to get one.
My advice, along with thousands of other born again, blood bought saints of God, is this - Get yourself a copy of the King James Holy Bible. It is the only one that has stood the test of time and that God has clearly set His marks of approval on as being His complete, inspired and inerrant "word of God" which tells us the whole truth about "the Word of God." *
All of grace, believing the Book - the Authorized King James Holy Bible.* Don't settle for an inferior substitute. *
Will Kinney *
For further thoughts on this topic, may I recommend the article showing many "coincidences" of history where God clearly sets His mark of approval on the King James Bible. It is called "God's Persistent Witness to the Absolute Standard of Written Truth = the King James Holy Bible."
http://brandplucked.webs.com/absolutestandard.htm*
Welcome to the lang of personal mysticism
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandplucked
OK, "genuineoriginal", prove me wrong. Show us a copy of this inerrant New Testament you SAY you believe in. Go ahead. Will you be one of the first bible agnostics here to actually answer the question? ( doubtful)
Welcome to the La La Land of personal mysticism.
This is why all you bible agnostics like Bob Enyart continue to say the Word of God, instead of the word of God.
You know nothing about the Word of God (Jesus Christ) apart from this word of God you people really do not believe and have little reverence for.
Don't Confuse "the Word of God" with "the word of God"
Bible agnostics ( a = not + gnostic = to know) who do not know for sure what God may or may not have said in literally hundreds of different places in the same verses of todays Bible Babble Buffet versions on the market often confuse these two Biblical terms - "the Word of God" and "the word of God". *
I have seen this so many times that I finally decided to write an article about it so I can repost it instead of having to type out the same response again and again.
Note - If you think you believe in the inerrancy of the Bible and are not a bible agnostic, then take The Bible Agnostic Test and see if you know for sure what God wrote in His Book.
See "The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy = just more Evangelical mumbo jumbo signifying nothing"
http://brandplucked.webs.com/chicagostate.htm*
And if you think (as many affirm) that no doctrines are changed, then see Fake Bible Versions DO teach false doctrines - Links to examples
http://brandplucked.webs.com/fakebiblesdoctrine.htm*
*One such bible agnostic and unbeliever in the inerrancy of ANY Bible in any language recently posted the following:*
*"Where do you get the thought that the Word of God is a "real, tangible, in print, hold it in your hands and read, Book"? This is why KJV Only people can not have a logical discussion on the matter.* For you it must be a single hard copy book. The reality is that God gave us His very Word in other languages than English, this necessitates either learning Greek and Hebrew (I have studied Hebrew myself for 10 years and hope to start Greek soon) OR translating the original languages into our language." [End of comments]
*
There is so much muddle headed thinking in this man's statement that it is tough to know where to begin addressing his points.* First of all "the Word of God" is NOT the same as "the word of God".* The title "the Word" is found in the King James Bible 7 times; only 6 times in most modern Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET, Holman, etc.
*It is found in John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us..."
1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life."
1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
Revelation 19:13 "And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God."
The term "the Word" with a capital W refers to the Lord Jesus Christ, the Second Person of the blessed Trinity. The Word existed from eternity, was incarnated as the Son of man/Son of God, lived a perfect life for 33 years on this earth, He gave us the words His Father had given him, was crucified on a cross at Calvary where He bore the sins of His people and paid for them with His own shed blood, rose from the dead three days later and ascended into heaven where He now sits at the right hand of God the Father. And He is coming again in power and glory to raise His redeemed saints from the dead and to set up His kingdom on this earth.
*
But "the word of God" did none of these things and is not a Person.* The "word of God" is His inspired, written revelation of both Who this Word of God is and what He did to redeem His people. And contrary to what our Bible critic said, it IS a real, tangible, hard copy Book you can actually hold in your hands, read and believe is the very words of the living God.
The written words of God tell us of our desperate need for a Saviour from sin, hell and damnation.* They also record Gods' dealings with His people and the surrounding nations during their long history and it tells us many things about future events. We know NOTHING about Who the Word of God is or what He did for us, apart from the written word of God; nothing.
Now, let's address a couple of other things this shallow thinking bible agnostic said in his post.* He stated "The reality is that God gave us His very Word in other languages than English, this necessitates either learning Greek and Hebrew."*
*
This man is a very confused individual. First of all, the Word is the Lord Jesus Christ and He is not a language like English or any other language. He is a Person revealed to us by means of God's written words in many languages.* I agree that the gospel (the written revelation of the saving grace of God through our Lord Jesus Christ) is found in ANY bible version out there, no matter how corrupt it may be in many other ways. *
God can and does use any bible version to bring His people to faith in the Saviour - the Word of God.* But nobody seriously believes that versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NKJV, NET, Holman Standard etc. are the complete and inerrant words of God. Nobody, not even the people who keep churning them out one after another.
Secondly, this man who has NO complete and inerrant Bible in ANY language (and he knows he doesn't) now tells us that we need to learn Greek and Hebrew.* It seems that "The Blatantly Obvious" needs to be pointed out to these people over and over again, and hopefully, it will finally get through to them.*
*
THERE ARE NO "original autographs”. They do not exist and everybody knows that.* When Bible agnostics refer to "the" Hebrew and "the" Greek, they always fail to mention WHICH "the" Hebrew and "the" Greek they are referring to.
The Vatican Versions like the ESV, NIV, NASB, NET etc. often reject the clear Hebrew readings, and not even in the same places. If you look at the footnotes in versions like the NIV or ESV you will see note after note telling us things like "Some Hebrew mss. read...." or "One Hebrew mss. reads...." or "Most Hebrew mss. read...." or "The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain."*
And when we come to "the Greek" their case really begins to fall apart.* There are at least 30 different "the" Greek texts out there like those of Erasmus, Stephanus, Beza, Elziever, Westcott-Hort, the ever changing UBS/Nestle-Aland (now in its 28th edition and working on their 29th), Tischendorf, von Soden, Vogels, Merk, Bover or the Hodges - Farstad or perhaps the Robinson - Pierpoint Majority Texts - take your pick.* And none of them agree with each other, and several of them disagree by literally THOUSANDS OF WORDS.
*
It should also be pointed out that both the ancient biblical Hebrew and the biblical Greek are themselves archaic languages written in a form that is NOT spoken today in either Israel or Greece; the Hebrew speaking Jews and the native Greek speakers can understand them, but they do not speak or write that way today.
You will have to learn an entire new alphabet and language just to get half way proficient. They are also A LOT harder to understand that anything you are going to find in the English text of the Authorized King James Bible, and you are STILL going to end up with NO complete and inerrant Bible to believe in!
Do these bible agnostics ever bother to think their position through and follow the logic of where there arguments will lead them?* It seems they do not.
Only God knows for sure which readings, names, numbers, phrases and entire verses are the ones He originally inspired to be in His Book and only God can work in history to bring about the publication and printing of His written words in this book we call the Bible. *
We believe He has done this and can tell anyone where to get a copy of it for themselves. The bible agnostics and the "we need to learn Hebrew and Greek" promoters do not believe such a Book exists and certainly cannot tell you where to get one.
My advice, along with thousands of other born again, blood bought saints of God, is this - Get yourself a copy of the King James Holy Bible. It is the only one that has stood the test of time and that God has clearly set His marks of approval on as being His complete, inspired and inerrant "word of God" which tells us the whole truth about "the Word of God." *
All of grace, believing the Book - the Authorized King James Holy Bible.* Don't settle for an inferior substitute. *
Will Kinney *
For further thoughts on this topic, may I recommend the article showing many "coincidences" of history where God clearly sets His mark of approval on the King James Bible. It is called "God's Persistent Witness to the Absolute Standard of Written Truth = the King James Holy Bible."
http://brandplucked.webs.com/absolutestandard.htm*
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
There is no KJVOism. It's a phantom.
It's a normal defense mechanism and even its proponents have been fooled into thinking its a movement. If the AV was not unjustly attacked, there would be no reason for those who believe they have God's words in their hands to retaliate.
And all this from people who somehow think its within the realm of possibility that John was, the whole time, taking notes! "Excuse me Mr. Pilate, can you say that again? My parchment crashed. How do you spell that again? B..A..R..A..B.. Two Rs or one? I wouldn't ask but, after all, this is inspiring stuff and future generations will thank us."
Or those who think that, somehow, an error made by a printer thwarts the purposes of God and nullifies the correction that is subsequently made. "Verily, I have goode news and bad news. Thy first edition is complete. Unfortunately there are some errors that slipped through and muste needs be permanent to all generations."
Meanwhile, Christians are wasting time fighting with Christians and not SatanOnlyism.
Famous KJVO Gail Riplinger says the NIV is satanic because it uses the word "ages" instead of "world". Riplinger says these satanic seeds were planted by the "new age" writers of the NIV with a satanic agenda.
The KJV is just about the only major translation that has the word "gay" in it.
(James 2:3 KJV) And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Using Riplinger's logic, it would mean homosexuals wrote the KJV in order to plant the "gay agenda".
The KJV is just about the only major translation that has the word "gay" in it.
(James 2:3 KJV) And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:
Using Riplinger's logic, it would mean homosexuals wrote the KJV in order to plant the "gay agenda".
genuineoriginal
New member
No, the reason I say the Word of God is to show that the Word that comes from the mouth of God has more importance than the word that comes from any man.
It is the same reason I capitalize Father when speaking of God the Father instead of writing father when speaking of Joseph's father.
It is the same reason I capitalize Him when referring to Jesus.
The capitalization of the Word of God is a show of respect.
I am not a Bible agnostic, I am a Bible empiricist.
_____
empirical
derived from or guided by experience or experiment.
depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, especially as in medicine.
provable or verifiable by experience or experiment.
_____
I know for sure what God said, no matter what printing errors or translation errors there are because I have His Word (what He spoke) written down in many languages and many translations and I can find out for myself whether the particular version is an accurate representation of His Word or not.empirical
derived from or guided by experience or experiment.
depending upon experience or observation alone, without using scientific method or theory, especially as in medicine.
provable or verifiable by experience or experiment.
_____
Let's look at your Bible Agnostic Test and see if you are a Bible Agnostic or a Bible empiricist or if you are merely KJVO.
Well, from your website, it appears that you are a Bible empiricist who regularly goes to the Bible Buffet.
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All I said was no one knows when or how John wrote his epistle.
You thought you had a good theory for why the KJV has the word "Easter" in Acts 12:4, but your theory fell apart when we learned that John called two other Israelite feasts "the Jews........"
It's impossible that "Easter" is the correct word in Acts 12:4, and you KJVO's have run out of excuses for why it's there.
Quinn Olinger
New member
Wait a second here. The King James Version says "Easter" in Acts 12:4? And people like Will Kenney are claiming that God inspired the translators to use the word Easter instead of "Passover"? ROTFL!!!!! No wonder people laugh hysterically at KJO believers!
Quinn Olinger
New member
KJV has known errors in its translation
KJV has known errors in its translation
So, aside from using Easter rather than Passover in Acts 12:4 we know of some big errors in the translation of the KJV. One of them is Jeremiah 3:7.
The KJV says
The correct translation of the Hebrew as Bob and Will will demonstrate at some point in this debate (and Hebrew expert Tim McMahon can show) is this.
Now let's watch Kinney squirm.
KJV has known errors in its translation
So, aside from using Easter rather than Passover in Acts 12:4 we know of some big errors in the translation of the KJV. One of them is Jeremiah 3:7.
The KJV says
The correct translation of the Hebrew as Bob and Will will demonstrate at some point in this debate (and Hebrew expert Tim McMahon can show) is this.
Now let's watch Kinney squirm.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Yes and we are not giving it up.
I am usually gay, except when I'm not. My wife is gay. In fact our whole family is gay, especially the children and especially at dinner time. I insist on my gay rights!
drbrumley
Well-known member
I'm not a KJO person, but I do think your wrong here and barking up the wrong tree. Easter is proper here in my estimation.
What's even more funnier/sadder, is that most KJVO's claim that "Easter" in Acts 12:4 is actually referring to a pagan holiday that has nothing to do with Christian Easter or Jewish Passover.
SaulToPaul and others here on TOL are KJVO's who make that claim.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
The first book of the N.T. was written by a tax collector. Everyone hates taxes. It must be wrong. Let's take it out.
George Affleck
TOL Subscriber
Not me.