[Knight: I apologize if this is not appropriate for this thread, but I sincerely have these questions about Pastor Bob's premise that "Absolute Morality" is evidence for the existence of God.]
I further hope that if Pastor Bob does not address these questions outside of the debate, that Zakath will ask him to clarify the position within the debate by asking him the same (or similar) questions.
I
posted the following response to Pastor Bob in
this other thread:
For the record, I
posted the following on
this thread:
Originally posted by Bob Enyart
Looking forward to reading your posts, -Bob Enyart
Pastor Bob - did you get a chance to read
my post? If you have the time, I would really like if you could answer those questions (or let me know if and why you can't right now). I hope you can tell that these are honest and legitimate questions, as I truly do not understand the concept of "Absolute Right & Wrong". You have used this to prove that God exists. Perhaps you could help me and others understand this idea so we might better understand this point you made in the current debate.
Thank you.
--ZK
Pastor Bob
responded with this:
Originally posted by Bob Enyart
ZK: You guessed it, I don't have the time, but I do invite you to call your questions into the radio show any weeknight (but not on July 4th, we're re-airing our interview with Norma Rogers, the nurse who found Juanita Broaddrick sobbing shortly after she says she was raped.) -Bob E.
Perhaps Zakath can ask Pastor Bob to respond to these questions in the current debate. These are the types of questions that NEED TO BE ANSWERED to get any benefit out of Pastor Bob's position that Absolute Right & Wrong are evidence of the existence of God.
It may not be the case, but I think Pastor Bob's "not having time" really just means he doesn't know, or that his answers will only serve to strike this major premise from his argument.
--ZK
=============================================
For ease of reference, here are the questions that I asked regarding Absolute Morality:
Can a theist that is well-versed in the idea of "Absolute Right & Wrong" (and believes it is true) please answer some honest questions I have? If Pastor Bob could answer these too (If you have time), that would help me (and others) understand (some of) your positions in the current debate more. The more detail the better. Thank you.
1) In reference to the ideas of "Absolute Right" and "Absolute Wrong", can you please define the following terms: "Absolute", "Right", "Wrong", "Absolute Right", "Absolute Wrong". In addition, if you use any other terms that are likely to be misinterpreted, please define them too. (ie: "Subjective"; "Relative"; "Conditional"; "Action" (just the act itself, or inclusive of motives and any/all conditions?))
2) If I believe there is only one Absolute Right & Wrong, and that every other action is relative, does that mean I believe in "Absolute Right & Wrongs"? What if I believe there is only one action that is Relative, and all others are Absolute? In other words, would I have to believe ALL actions are absolutely right or wrong to believe in "Absolute Right & Wrong"? Would I have to belive that ALL actions are relative in order to believe in "Relative Right & Wrong"? What language would you use to differentiate whether someone believed most (but not all) actions are Absolute (Right & Wrong implied from now on), as opposed to someone that believed most (but not all) actions were Relative (again, Right & Wrong implied from now on)?
3) Can something that is Absolutely Right or Wrong be MORE or LESS Absolutely Right or Wrong than something else? If so, is the scale of Absolutes also Absolute? If so, can someone please provide me with that scale (for at least the top 10 or so actions that usually come up in debates regarding this issue: Murder, Rape, Lying, Stealing, etc...)? If there is a scale, then is there some sort of weight that can be applied to the actions - is that relative or absolute? In other words, if "Murder" is worse than "Lying", is it 5 times worse? 10 times worse? Or is the weighting more relative? What is the scale for Absolute Rights also?
4) Are thoughts also Absolutely Right or Wrong? Are motives or intentions a part in deciding if something is Right or Wrong? How is this Absolute (or Relative) and how does that affect the answer(s) in #3? Jesus compared "hate" and "lust" (just the thoughts) to "murder" and "adultery". Was he saying those thoughts were *just as bad* as the actions? Would thoughts about those actions be at the same level in the scale discussed in #3? Actions seem to be more "black and white" than thoughts. Either you murdered the person or you didnt (for example)? But it seems thoughts are a bit more gray. What if the thought crosses my mind that "I wish this person was dead" (for example), but is immediately replaced with "No, that would be wrong, I should love this person"; Is that already as bad as if I were to have killed them? If not, at what point do those thoughts become bad? Or is it the more I think about them, the worse they become? Is this "worse" relative or absolute? Where do they fit on the scale on #3? Intentions and Motives never seem to be pure, and seem to be rather "gray". If they play a part in something being Right or Wrong, how can the actions still be "Absolutely Right or Wrong"?
5) How does the ability to prevent something Wrong from happening fit in with all of this? If you can prevent a Wrong, but don't, is that *just as bad* as if you had done the Wrong? Is it bad/wrong at all? Where on the scale (#3) would it be? What if you try to prevent a Wrong, but it still happens? Where is that on the scale? What if you didn't try your hardest? What if you could have prevented someone from being murdered by jumping in front of the bullet (for example), but you didn't? Is that just as bad as having murdered them yourself?
6) (Depending on the answers above, the answer to this question may be apparant.) Does the end ever justify the means? Is it ever right to do something wrong in order to make something right happen? Example: Would it ever be right to Lie in order to prevent someone from being Murdered? Why or why not?
I truly hope that someone can answer these questions truthfully without obfuscating their answers.
Thank you,
--ZK