Atheist Morality

[Right Divider]

The reason that we doubt Jesus was an historical person has to do with the fact that the Christians appear to have originally believed he lived in the heavens and not on earth, and people received messages in dreams and visions. They later revised their thinking and placed him on earth actually interacting with people. Local savior Gods were a trend in other areas at the time that caught on. Thus, a local savior God was adapted within existing traditions because of its compelling nature not because of its veracity.

You live in a fairy tale world.

 

[Skeeter]

You live in a fairy tale world.

Why or why not are each of the following a fairy tale?:

A crafty blacksmith sells his soul to an evil supernatural entity in exchange for awesome smithing powers, which he then uses to leash the entity to an immovable object.

The Devil entered into a serpent and tempted Eve. He got Eve to doubt God’s Word. Satan told her that God knew that Eve would become enlightened and possess the same knowledge as God had if she ate from the fruit of the tree. Adam and Eve ate the apple, gained knowledge, and were banished from the Garden by God.

As early humans faced new environmental challenges and evolved bigger bodies, they evolved larger and more complex brains. Large, complex brains can process and store a lot of information. That was a big advantage to early humans in their social interactions and encounters with unfamiliar habitats. Morality was selected by evolution in our human ancestors in order to promote cooperation and smooth social interactions.

 

[Right Divider]

Why or why not are each of the following a fairy tale?:

Your rejection of your Creator and your "evolution" fairy tale have completely warped your mind.

 

[Skeeter]

Your rejection of your Creator and your "evolution" fairy tale have completely warped your mind.

What about the blacksmith?

 

[Right Divider]

What about the blacksmith?

Completely silly, like most of your world-view.

 

[PureX]

God is not interested whether sinners think sin is right or not. He makes the rules and judges those who foolishly break them.

God's law (and man's law) says, "thou shalt not steal". But "Bob" might choose to steal a loaf of bread to save the life of a starving child, while "Steve" might choose to steal a loaf of bread and then throw it into the dumpster just to show his stupid friends what a 'bad guy' he is.

I don't believe the "sin" was in the act of taking bread without paying for it. I think the "sin" is in the spiritual state that motivates the one doing it. And I believe that is what God judges, and will hold us accountable for. Not the act, but the spiritual motive.

 

[PureX]

The reason that we doubt Jesus was an historical person has to do with the fact that the Christians appear to have originally believed he lived in the heavens and not on earth, and people received messages in dreams and visions. They later revised their thinking and placed him on earth actually interacting with people. Local savior Gods were a trend in other areas at the time that caught on. Thus, a local savior God was adapted within existing traditions because of its compelling nature not because of its veracity.

I think it's compelling nature IS it's voracity. As is the case with any mythological story we humans have developed and held for many centuries.

The problem I have with atheists and "atheist morality" is that so many atheists I encounter think that the physical facts are the only measure of voracity. When the physical facts are very often quite irrelevant and insignificant. Until we can build a time machine and return to the time and place of Jesus to determine for ourselves who and what he was, we are left with a story, AND WHAT THAT STORY MEANS TO US. That is it's whole essence. NOT it's factuality, but it's meaning, and significance. The revelation and the promise to us that it embodies. That's what gives it it's validity.

 

[Right Divider]

I think it's compelling nature IS it's voracity. As is the case with any mythological story we humans have developed and held for many centuries.

The problem I have with atheists and "atheist morality" is that so many atheists I encounter think that the physical facts are the only measure of voracity. When the physical facts are very often quite irrelevant and insignificant. Until we can build a time machine and return to the time and place of Jesus to determine for ourselves who and what he was, we are left with a story, AND WHAT THAT STORY MEANS TO US. That is it's whole essence. NOT it's factuality, but it's meaning, and significance. The revelation and the promise to us that it embodies. That's what gives it it's validity.

If it's not factual, then your perceived "meaning of the story to you" is meaningless.

 

[PureX]

If it's not factual, then your perceived "meaning of the story to you" is meaningless.

You sound like an atheist.

 

[Skeeter]

I think it's compelling nature IS it's voracity. As is the case with any mythological story we humans have developed and held for many centuries.

Agreed. The Bible can be the source of valuable lessons. It is only a trouble when people attempt to be overly literal and claim that clear absolute imperatives can be derived from it.

The problem I have with atheists and "atheist morality" is that so many atheists I encounter think that the physical facts are the only measure of voracity. When the physical facts are very often quite irrelevant and insignificant.

The literal truth of a matter is irrelevant when evaluating parables. The larger truth is only symbolized by the narrative, and is the more important lesson. I think viewing a parable as one valid angle to consider is helpful, but pretending it provides absolute clarity on a matter backfires.

Until we can build a time machine and return to the time and place of Jesus to determine for ourselves who and what he was, we are left with a story, AND WHAT THAT STORY MEANS TO US. That is it's whole essence. NOT it's factuality, but it's meaning, and significance. The revelation and the promise to us that it embodies. That's what gives it it's validity.

Perhaps emotional massaging as well as the ring of truth both account for the longevity and popularity of particular literature. When too much massaging going on, truth could suffer.

 

[Skeeter]

Completely silly, like most of your world-view.

This blacksmith fairy-tail predates the Bible by thousands of years. It symbolizes humanity's need to balance knowledge with restraint.

 

[Right Divider]

You sound like an atheist.

You sound like a Mormon.

 

[Right Divider]

This blacksmith fairy-tail predates the Bible by thousands of years.

You are full of speculation.

It symbolizes humanity's need to balance knowledge with restraint.

I don't care.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The reason that we doubt Jesus was an historical person has to do with the fact that the Christians appear to have originally believed he lived in the heavens and not on earth, and people received messages in dreams and visions. They later revised their thinking and placed him on earth actually interacting with people. Local savior Gods were a trend in other areas at the time that caught on. Thus, a local savior God was adapted within existing traditions because of its compelling nature not because of its veracity.

Complete and utter nonsense.

There is plenty of evidence that He walked the earth two thousand years ago, then bled and died for your sins, and rose again on the third day.

Extraordinary claims need more solid evidence because plausibility is low. That Jesus was a historical individual is possible. The odds are against even that. There is 1/3 chance he ever even existed. The miraculous claims are not supported by much of anything.

Hypocrite. This itself, along with what I quoted above, is an extraordinary claim.

---

In fact, there's an entire (literal and figurative) mountain of evidence for not only his existence, but also his death, burial, and resurrection.

 

[Skeeter]

You are full of speculation.

This story can be traced back to a time when Western and Eastern Indo-European languages split, which was approximately 5,000 years ago, which means that it predates the Bible and even Greek myths.

Phylogenetic analyses suggests fairy tales are much older than thought

(Phys.org)—A pair of researchers has conducted a phylogenetic analysis on common fairy tales and has found that many of them appear to be much older than has been thought. In their paper published in Royal Society Open Science, Sara Graça da Silva, a social scientist/folklorist with New...

phys.org

I don't care.

I know. You don't care about evidence.

 

[marke]

Extraordinary claims need more solid evidence because plausibility is low. That Jesus was a historical individual is possible. The odds are against even that. There is 1/3 chance he ever even existed. The miraculous claims are not supported by much of anything.

Unbelieving rebels against God unwisely gamble on the vain hope they will never be judged for their sins. What foolishness!

Proverbs 15:32
He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding.

Proverbs 8:36
But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.

 

[marke]

God's law (and man's law) says, "thou shalt not steal". But "Bob" might choose to steal a loaf of bread to save the life of a starving child, while "Steve" might choose to steal a loaf of bread and then throw it into the dumpster just to show his stupid friends what a 'bad guy' he is.

I don't believe the "sin" was in the act of taking bread without paying for it. I think the "sin" is in the spiritual state that motivates the one doing it. And I believe that is what God judges, and will hold us accountable for. Not the act, but the spiritual motive.

I agree that God metes out different punishments for different sins according to their degree of offense but God never condones sin. A thief who steals when he is hungry will not be as seriously punished as a thief who steals for a more wicked reason. But God says the thief who steals because he is hungry will still be punished if caught because stealing from others is wrong.

Proverbs 6:30-31

King James Version

30 Men do not despise a thief, if he steal to satisfy his soul when he is hungry;
31 But if he be found, he shall restore sevenfold; he shall give all the substance of his house.​

 

[Idolater]

This story can be traced back to a time when Western and Eastern Indo-European languages split, which was approximately 5,000 years ago, which means that it predates the Bible and even Greek myths.

And right in the range of when the Flood happened. Curious that!

Phylogenetic analyses suggests fairy tales are much older than thought

(Phys.org)—A pair of researchers has conducted a phylogenetic analysis on common fairy tales and has found that many of them appear to be much older than has been thought. In their paper published in Royal Society Open Science, Sara Graça da Silva, a social scientist/folklorist with New...

phys.org

I know. You don't care about evidence.

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[Right Divider]

This story can be traced back to a time when Western and Eastern Indo-European languages split, which was approximately 5,000 years ago, which means that it predates the Bible and even Greek myths.

Phylogenetic analyses suggests fairy tales are much older than thought

(Phys.org)—A pair of researchers has conducted a phylogenetic analysis on common fairy tales and has found that many of them appear to be much older than has been thought. In their paper published in Royal Society Open Science, Sara Graça da Silva, a social scientist/folklorist with New...

phys.org

I know. You don't care about evidence.

You love to lie about me.

That writing is irrelevant.

 

[Jefferson]

You established nothing, I am not a secular humanist.

Which of the fundamentals of Secular Humanism do you disagree with?