Assisted Suicides Soar in Switzerland

[Ktoyou]

So do you regard it as a sin if someone's on morphine or strong opioid medication?

I think it depends on your relationship with God. I do not lie my conscious to Him. Some people, it may not be a sin because it depends on what god wants for them.

 

[Arthur Brain]

I think it depends on your relationship with God. I do not lie my conscious to Him. Some people, it may not be a sin because it depends on what god wants for them.

Would God want someone to suffer horrendous pain without any palliative meds in your opinion?

 

[Angel4Truth]

If they are close, why not just let nature take its course, or rather, what God wills?

Mental illness is a tough one, it's subjective and hard to objectively measure.

Let's just say I'm around 80 years in age with an advanced terminal illness such as cancer. I'm in constant pain, perhaps immobile, going to the bathroom upon my self with only a few weeks to live. At this point in my life and given my condition, I'm more in dread of the remainder of my life than of death.

The choice is obvious: Get my affairs in order than die on my own terms.

One last finger lifted up to God, eh?

Why do you look at it like that?

:AMR:

Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel.

Okay, now how about an actual answer as to what I asked?

Does God know when every person is going to die, or is it all left up to chance?

Angel, I'm not asking you for bible verses or links but rather why you would think that someone who is dying of a terminal disease is 'lifting one last finger to God' if they choose to end their life before all quality of it has gone as you so "deftly" put it.

It's one thing if you personally consider it a sin or whatever but that doesn't apply to everyone else, even believers I'd venture.

Please post me saying that please, also post what i said and the quote i said it in reference to and pay attention to who i was speaking with and what was underlined that i referenced, and if you still dont get the context, i cant help you.



yep and context is everything, but keep pretending otherwise.

Well, anyone who thinks a cancer sufferer should go on and die 'naturally' without the aid of palliative drugs is a complete headcase. They'd sharp change their tune if they were wasting away of the very same...

Sure, here:

http://theologyonline.com/showthrea...-Switzerland&p=4864088&viewfull=1#post4864088

Now considering I asked you why you looked at Quip's comment that way then how about you answer just exactly what you meant by that remark if the obvious implication isn't your intention?



As above.

Well, anyone who thinks a cancer sufferer should go on and die 'naturally' without the aid of palliative drugs is a complete headcase. They'd sharp change their tune if they were wasting away of the very same...

Who said that?

You didnt quote me saying all the things you added to what i said and the context you ignored, try again.

I don't know, I was responding to Ktoyou's comment on that one.

I quoted you directly in your response to Quip. Instead of all this deflection how about you just explain what you meant by your comment? Geez, can't be that difficult can it?

:AMR:

No you didnt do that before, before you added to my words and included "thoughts" i did not state nor maintain, my response was ONLY to quip and what i underlined in his quote, period.




You make it difficult by adding things no one said when you respond to them, like this thing you did:

Well, anyone who thinks a cancer sufferer should go on and die 'naturally' without the aid of palliative drugs is a complete headcase. They'd sharp change their tune if they were wasting away of the very same...

You inserted something no one said and then ran with it.

I don't make it 'difficult' whatsoever and if there was somehow some "change" in context with my own post then I rectified that anyway by directly quoting your own reply. What did you mean by that in response to Quip? Surely you must know if I've somehow misread the context?

:AMR:



Oh get real Angel. What the hell do you think Morphine is used for in relation to cancer?! Look at my response to K in that regard. If you're just here to vent or spoil for an argument instead of debate then look somewhere else. Been down this road with you before and not interested again if this is the way you're gonna act.

lain:

Not playing, sorry.

It's all you seem to have been doing since you just ran away from the question I asked. In future it might be an idea to not make such a comment as you did to Quip.

lain:

Not playing, sorry.

 

[Ktoyou]

Couldn't a suicidal person with a mental illness potentially suffer more, and for longer than a terminally ill person?

If so, wouldn't their suicide prevent an even greater amount of suffering than a terminal patient's suicide?

You are the one who said suffering was not the point. I never considered mental suffering the same as dying of cancer. The pain I have experienced has made medical personal quake, and it is nowhere near as bad as cancer.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Not playing, sorry.

Dunno why you think I'd have any issue with you quoting all of the above so it kinda seems as though you still are playing really, and you still didn't answer the question either...

lain:

 

[Angel4Truth]

Would God want someone to suffer horrendous pain without any palliative meds in your opinion?

Why do you insist on adding things to what people say, then acting like they said even after you already admitted you dont even know who said such (because no one did) its a NON issue.

 

[Ktoyou]

Would God want someone to suffer horrendous pain without any palliative meds in your opinion?

God does not ask what He knows you cannot give. He does ask you gave all he has given you.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Dunno why you think I'd have any issue with you quoting all of the above so it kinda seems as though you still are playing really, and you still didn't answer the question either...

lain:

Im showing your insertions and errors - are they deliberate or do you just imagine people said things they didnt?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Why do you insist on adding things to what people say, then acting like they said even after you already admitted you dont even know who said such (because no one did) its a NON issue.

Why do you insist in getting all worked up and semantic over issues? Morphine is a palliative drug and extensively used in the treatment of terminal cancer, so go play somewhere else as it's obvious you're not going to address the question I originally asked you.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Well, anyone who thinks a cancer sufferer should go on and die 'naturally' without the aid of palliative drugs is a complete headcase. They'd sharp change their tune if they were wasting away of the very same...

Who said that?

I don't know, I was responding to Ktoyou's comment on that one.

Why do you insist in getting all worked up and semantic over issues? Morphine is a palliative drug and extensively used in the treatment of terminal cancer, so go play somewhere else as it's obvious you're not going to address the question I originally asked you.

You miss the point - as usual - youre claiming someone thinks or has stated that they believe in addition to not being assisted with suicide, that they also receive no pain meds, when you even admit, you dont know who said that (you inserted it, no one said it) and you are STILL trying to run with a false assertion that no one said, but you created.

Keep spinning though

 

[Arthur Brain]

You miss the point - as usual - youre claiming someone thinks or has stated that they believe in addition to not being assisted with suicide, that they also receive no pain meds, when you even admit, you dont know who said that (you inserted it, no one said it) and you are STILL trying to run with a false assertion that no one said, but you created.

Keep spinning though

Yeh, keep being semantic and avoiding simple questions, else go and take your temper to someone else Angel.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yeh, keep being semantic and avoiding simple questions, else go and take your temper to someone else Angel.

Stop lying about what people think and say, arthur.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Im showing your insertions and errors - are they deliberate or do you just imagine people said things they didnt?

Funny how this all emanated from a simple question I asked you in regards to your comment to Quip, one you still haven't even tried to answer.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Funny how this all emanated from a simple question I asked you in regards to your comment to Quip, one you still haven't even tried to answer.

I answered it, numerous times, your not liking the answer that trips up your false assertions, arent my problem or responsibility, sorry it didnt work out for you today.

 

[Ktoyou]

Why do you insist in getting all worked up and semantic over issues? Morphine is a palliative drug and extensively used in the treatment of terminal cancer, so go play somewhere else as it's obvious you're not going to address the question I originally asked you.

Everyone has a moral conscious, even if they reject God. So, who is more right in the eyes of God, do you think? Someone who ends their life a few weeks shorter saving lives and dying to save a life or someone who dies is a drug dream state? Save who you ask? Maybe save those who work at sinful practices?

It may seem like a bigger sin to most people to end your life rather than be doped up a few weeks, but after death, God is the only one you answer to.

Pointless, for me in many ways to present this, since my family would not be able to deal with the strain of me doing the higher act, so, i will go like most old folks because untimely, God wants what is best for them regarding me.

I do not think one can legalize morality, all the law does is prevent one from harming others.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Stop lying about what people think and say, arthur.

Hard to stop what I'm not doing, though carry on with that if you want.

Why you couldn't have just answered my initial question to you is anyone's guess, even yours by now...

lain:

 

[Eagles Wings]

This is a good article. Note the National Hospice Organization's mission to provide pain free, and alert end of life care.

We researched hospice care in our area before choosing. Not all have the same mission. Met the team, too.

http://www.faithfacts.org/christ-and-the-culture/euthanasia

 

[glassjester]

You are the one who said suffering was not the point.

Right, it's not. It's only based on how much time the doctor thinks you have left.

Which makes no sense, even according to the faulty rationale behind assisted suicide.
If it's really meant to prevent further suffering, wouldn't someone who stands to suffer longer have a greater claim to a right to suicide?

 

[Arthur Brain]

I answered it, numerous times, your not liking the answer that trips up your false assertions, arent my problem or responsibility, sorry it didnt work out for you today.

No, you didn't. You didn't even make an attempt to. You quoted a bible verse and then a link to some Billy Graham site or some such but when put on the spot as to what you meant by your own comment you had...nothing.

 

[Eagles Wings]

I answered it, numerous times, your not liking the answer that trips up your false assertions, arent my problem or responsibility, sorry it didnt work out for you today.

I got what you meant, particularly the quote from Proverbs.

I pray daily that I do not act the fool.