Arminians' Dilemma

[themuzicman]

I don't think, he was. Paul said all died when Christ died (2 Cor 5:14, 15) and were made alive TOGETHER with Him when He resurrected (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13). The Arminians do not teach this, neither do the Calvinists.

Paul also said that justification came to all men (Romans 5:18)

 

[Samie]

John 15-17:9 is about the 12 disciples specifically. Further, the context of John 15 is going out to do ministry, and not initial faith.

So, when it is NOT about ministry, are you saying the disciples can do anything apart from Christ? If Yes, then you have a wonderful exegesis. It's called eisegesis.

That's only if you accept Calvinist eisegesis.

Which I don't.

Again, poor exegesis. Galatians 5 is speaking of "faithfulness", and that only in those who are already saved. This isn't speaking of initial salvation.

The Greek says 'pistis' brother, no matter how you tweak it in English.

It's called "proper exegesis." You can't go to the bible looking for Calvinism. You need to go to the bible looking to correct Calvinism.

So, by your own standard, Calvinism is violating Galatians 1

Both Calvinism and Arminianism violate what Jesus Himself said.

 

[themuzicman]

So, when it is NOT about ministry, are you saying the disciples can do anything apart from Christ? If Yes, then you have a wonderful exegesis. It's called eisegesis.

No, that would be a straw man argument, as I've never made this claim. When not speaking about their ministry, it is unclear whether they can do some things and not others.

The Greek says 'pistis' brother, no matter how you tweak it in English.

Translation is more than just picking the lexical entry that fits your theology. Paul is speaking about those who are already saved, and thus this isn't about initial salvation.

Both Calvinism and Arminianism violate what Jesus Himself said.

As what you have said.

 

[Samie]

No, that would be a straw man argument, as I've never made this claim. When not speaking about their ministry, it is unclear whether they can do some things and not others.

Paul said he can do all things through Christ, but you are not sure he can, are you?

Translation is more than just picking the lexical entry that fits your theology. Paul is speaking about those who are already saved, and thus this isn't about initial salvation.

Do you know who the already saved are that Paul was speaking about? You aren't even sure Paul can do all things through Christ.

 

[TulipBee]

Arminians teach that Christ died for every one, but only those who, by faith, accept the gift of salvation can be in Christ. In other words, people are born NOT in Christ.

But Jesus told His disciples that apart from Him, they cannot bear fruit; apart from Him, they can do NOTHING (John 15:4, 5). And if anyone is able to bear fruit and do something while NOT in Christ, then he is better off than Christ's disciples.

It appears that the gospel Arminians teach goes against the statement of Christ, because for the Arminians, while NOT in Christ and hence apart from Christ, people can do SOMETHING – they can believe and accept the gift of salvation – to be in Christ.

But believing is exercising faith which is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22), and only those in Christ are able to bear fruit.

Will any Arminian please explain?

Your silence could mean indirect admission that indeed you are preaching a gospel that goes against what Jesus Himself said. And Scriptures warn against preaching another gospel (Gal 1:6-9).

Why would Christ save those that won't believe in him????
According to you, Jesus is too dumb to know who God has given to him to save.
Arminianism are poor sportsmanship. They cheat to decieve

 

[themuzicman]

Paul said he can do all things through Christ, but you are not sure he can, are you?

Nice dodge. You get called out on a logical fallacy and then run to the next straw man.

Do you know who the already saved are that Paul was speaking about? You aren't even sure Paul can do all things through Christ.

False accusation.

 

[Samie]

Why would Christ save those that won't believe in him????
According to you, Jesus is too dumb to know who God has given to him to save.
Arminianism are poor sportsmanship. They cheat to decieve

Why don't you try to bring yourself out first from your own Calvinist's dilemma? Answer the OP in the other thread, if you can. But it appears you can't, and it's been 5 days and counting.

 

[TulipBee]

Why don't you try to bring yourself out first from your own Calvinist's dilemma? Answer the OP in the other thread, if you can. But it appears you can't, and it's been 5 days and counting.

This is not the other thread

 

[Samie]

This is not the other thread

That's why I provided you the link to the other thread so you can easily find it.

 

[TulipBee]

That's why I provided you the link to the other thread so you can easily find it.

Been there done that. Get creative and move on. If you had talent, you might convince me in an ongoing conversation in real time. Conversations between you and I end up dead due to your unfaithfulness and man made suggestions. Elects don't fall for your subliminal messages. It doesn't work on regenerates.

 

[Samie]

That's why I provided you the link to the other thread so you can easily find it.

Been there done that. Get creative and move on. If you had talent, you might convince me in an ongoing conversation in real time. Conversations between you and I end up dead due to your unfaithfulness and man made suggestions. Elects don't fall for your subliminal messages. It doesn't work on regenerates.

Not a shadow of a bee brought any tulip to the Calvinists' Dilemma thread. You lied.

 

[TulipBee]

Not a shadow of a bee brought any tulip to the Calvinists' Dilemma thread. You lied.

Nope, I forgot there wasn't anything for me to offer in that topic. It was a topic to mislead others. I got bored there due to too many man made questions

 

[Samie]

Nope, I forgot there wasn't anything for me to offer in that topic.

Of course. You knew you can't wiggle out from the dilemma. So, why try when you knew all along it would be an exercise in futility?

 

[TulipBee]

Of course. You knew you can't wiggle out from the dilemma. So, why try when you knew all along it would be an exercise in futility?

Didn't wiggle out. I got bored there with all your man made demands to force God's arms to suit your OWN pleasures not God's, hence you're boring.

 

[Samie]

Didn't wiggle out. I got bored there with all your man made demands to force God's arms to suit your OWN pleasures not God's, hence you're boring.

Yes, it's boring to remain in the Calvinists' Dilemma. 10 days and still counting.

 

[TulipBee]

Yes, it's boring to remain in the Calvinists' Dilemma. 10 days and still counting.

So is this topic cause you're always trying to start something

 

[Samie]

So is this topic cause you're always trying to start something

Any topic is boring to one who cannot defend his position relative to the topic. One good example is you because until now you cannot resolve the Calvinists' Dilemma and opt to stay in this thread instead.

 

[blackbirdking]

...But believing is exercising faith which is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22), and only those in Christ are able to bear fruit...

You are confused; believing is not a fruit of the Spirit.

You use scripture to argue, and scripture shuts you down because it says, "the devils also believe, and tremble"; according to you they are 'in Christ' because they 'bear fruit of the Spirit', so that even the devils are pawns of the Spirit. That makes you to look an awful lot like a Calvinist; maybe B57's brother.

 

[Samie]

...But believing is exercising faith which is fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22), and only those in Christ are able to bear fruit...

You are confused; believing is not a fruit of the Spirit.

You use scripture to argue, and scripture shuts you down because it says, "the devils also believe, and tremble"; according to you they are 'in Christ' because they 'bear fruit of the Spirit', so that even the devils are pawns of the Spirit. That makes you to look an awful lot like a Calvinist; maybe B57's brother.

I did not say believing is fruit of the Spirit. It is faith which is fruit of the Spirit. Believing is exercising faith. "Faith" is noun; "to believe" is verb. Why get confused right away at your very first charge?

It's you who say devils bear fruit of the Spirit, not me. Those in Christ have the faith of Christ. The devils don't and cannot have the faith of Christ. IF there are those who you say can believe while not in Christ, then their believing is just like the devils' believing. You now understand, brother?

You may try again.

 

[bling]

I did not say believing is fruit of the Spirit. It is faith which is fruit of the Spirit. Believing is exercising faith. "Faith" is noun; "to believe" is verb. Why get confused right away at your very first charge?

It's you who say devils bear fruit of the Spirit, not me. Those in Christ have the faith of Christ. The devils don't and cannot have the faith of Christ. IF there are those who you say can believe while not in Christ, then their believing is just like the devils' believing. You now understand, brother?

You may try again.

The Greek word can be translated faithfulness or faith, but since this is addressing Baptized believers it would have to be faithfulness and not faith since they already have saving faith.
Nonbelievers do lots of stuff, but cannot “do” anything worthy of anything including not being able to earn any part of their salvation.
The prodigal son did not do anything “worthy” by returning home, if the prodigal son had really been macho he would has stayed in the pigsty and died since he fully deserved that type of death; you have to pay the piper sometime. The prodigal son is not being “rewarded” for wimping out.
Soldiers who surrender in the heat of battle are not horrors.