ARGH!!! Calvinism makes me furious!!!

Z Man

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Originally posted by Christine

The point of Jesus's death? To be a sacrifice for the elect.
Not only was His death a sacrifice, but it also saved! But here's a question: Why did He die for the elect? Why save anyone?

Answer: To display His glory. All things exist and are done for this exact purpose. It's the reason we exist and the reason all things happen; to glorify God.
 

Christine

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Originally posted by Z Man

Not only was His death a sacrifice, but it also saved! But here's a question: Why did He die for the elect? Why save anyone?

Answer: To display His glory. All things exist and are done for this exact purpose. It's the reason we exist and the reason all things happen; to glorify God.
Z Man- You answer so much better than I. :thumb:
 

Nineveh

Merely Christian
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Originally posted by Christine

The point of Jesus's death? To be a sacrifice for the elect.

Would there need to be an "elect" if Eve hadn't invited sin and death into the world?
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Originally posted by Z Man

What's the difference? You both believe in free-will and that God can be "frustrated" and His will thwarted (although Scripture plainly tells us otherwise).

Arminians do not believe this. And no the Scripture teaches just the reverse.
 

Christine

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Originally posted by Nineveh

Would there need to be an "elect" if Eve hadn't invited sin and death into the world?
Did Eve invite sin and death into the world?
 

Z Man

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Originally posted by Nineveh

Would there need to be an "elect" if Eve hadn't invited sin and death into the world?
That's a moot point to argue. The fact is, it happened exactly the way God planned.

Revelations 13:8
All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1Peter 1:20
He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Originally posted by Z Man
To display His glory. All things exist and are done for this exact purpose. It's the reason we exist and the reason all things happen; to glorify God.

In what way does the act of raping a five year old boy who dies a week later due to a swollen brain that was caused by the severe violent shaking inflicted as his attacker performed his crime glorify God?

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Z Man

New member
Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

Arminians do not believe this.
What? In free-will?
And no the Scripture teaches just the reverse.
About God's will being thwarted??? :confused: In case you haven't read your Bible lately, may I show you the error of your words:

Job 42:1-2
Then Job answered the Lord: "I know that thou can do all things, and that no will of yours can be thwarted."

Psalm 115:3; 135:6
Our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases.

Whatever the Lord pleases He does, in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all deeps.


Is 14:24,27; 46:9-11; 55:11
The Lord of Hosts has sworn: "As I have planned, so shall it be, and as I have purposed, so shall it stand....For the Lord of Hosts has purposed, and who will make it void? His hand is stretched out, and who will turn it back?"


"Remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My council shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose, calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my council from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.' "


"So shall my Word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me void, but is shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the things for which I sent it."


Jer 32:17
" ' Ah Lord God! It is thou who has made the heavens and the earth by thy great power and by thy outstretched arm! Nothing is too difficult for thee.' "

Daniel 4:35
All the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing; and He does according to His will in the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay His hand or say to Him, "What are you doing?"

Matt 19:26
...with God all things are possible.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Originally posted by Turbo

Yeah, but the rebellion and sin were all part of the big plan.

But wait... if God's will was to force man to rebel, then the rebellion wasn't really a rebellion at all.

And sin is defined as "Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God." But Calvinists claim to know that all sin is God's will. :dizzy:
Wow.... "JoBethian" theology to a "T". :D
 

Z Man

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AHHHHH calvinism makes me furious!!!

Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

In what way does the act of raping a five year old boy who dies a week later due to a swollen brain that was caused by the severe violent shaking inflicted as his attacker performed his crime glorify God?

Resting in Him,
Clete
Ask Job...
 

Z Man

New member
Originally posted by Knight

Z Man did God give the woman on the radio her cancer?
Who else could it of been?

Did God give Job his afflictions? Did God give Egypt thier plagues? Did God blind Zach, the father of John? Did God blind Paul? Did God cripple all those people that Jesus had to heal? Does God not do these things to be glorified?
 

Hilston

Active member
Hall of Fame
Couldn't He stop it?

Couldn't He stop it?

Hi Knight,

I can sympathize with your frustration, but from a different perspective, of course.

Knight writes:
I try to be calm and I try to be patient with those that credit bad things to God via Calvinistic theology.
I also try to be calm and patient with those who seem to have no problem with God not stopping a couple of planes from killing thousands of people.

Knight writes:
She went on to say that she was comforted by God (which of course is fantastic). But then she said that God have given her the cancer so God would also give her the strength to get through it.
I agree that this is a horrible distortion, but not for the same reason. The reason the woman developed cancer is possibly genetic, or possibly environment, and most likely a combination of both. God did not give her cancer. She acquired it quite naturally, without any special divine intervention. However, God did in fact decree that she would have cancer, and that she would ignorantly distort the facts concerning Him. God also controls meticulously every cancer cell in her body, holding their atomic structure together, maintaining their existence and preventing them from obliterating.

Knight writes:
What ever happened to understanding that it was man’s sin (our rebellion) that brought sickness and death into the world? What ever happened to placing the responsibility for bad things with mankind?
Both are good points. But it should be said that the Calvinistic view does not (should not) assign responsibility to God for bad things, or for anything for that matter. Responsibility implies accountability, and God answers to no one for anything He does or for anything He has decreed.

Clete writes:
In what way does the act of raping a five year old boy who dies a week later due to a swollen brain that was caused by the severe violent shaking inflicted as his attacker performed his crime glorify God?
My question is how does the Open Theist worship a god who would not prevent this from happening?

Along those same lines, here's a question for the Open Theists: Surely God could see what was transpiring as the 9/11 terrorists prepared to kill thousands of people. Would it have been against your theology for God to have figured out some way to prevent them from getting on those planes? (e.g. traffic jam? food poisoning? falling-piano or guardrail?) If yes, why? If no, why wouldn't God do everything He could to stop that tragedy?

Thanks,
Jim

PS: Knight -- I (finally) have another editorial cartoon coming -- soon. Cheers.
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Originally posted by Z Man

What's the difference? You both believe in free-will and that God can be "frustrated" and His will thwarted (although Scripture plainly tells us otherwise).
Oh really?

Proverbs 1:24 Because I have called and you refused, I have stretched out my hand and no one regarded, 25 Because you disdained all my counsel, And would have none of my rebuke,

"disdained all my counsel"??? How can that be Z Man? God's word contradicts your word plain and simple.

John 5:40 “But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Thwarting God's will is a theme that runs through the entire Bible Z Man. After all... that's why we need Jesus!

Acts 7:51 “You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.

How is that we could resist the Holy Spirit if we have no will of our own?
 

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Originally posted by Z Man

Who else could it of been?

Did God give Job his afflictions? Did God give Egypt thier plagues? Did God blind Zach, the father of John? Did God blind Paul? Did God cripple all those people that Jesus had to heal? Does God not do these things to be glorified?
Oh yea, yea... I forgot....

And God murdered 6 million Jews and He flew planes into the World Trade Center..... God did all of that to glorify Himself. :vomit:

John the Baptist, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Mother Theresa they are all the same aren't they? All perfectly fulfilling God's will to glorify Himself right?

Right????

:rolleyes:
 

Z Man

New member
Originally posted by Knight

Oh yea, yea... I forgot....

And God murdered 6 million Jews and He flew planes into the World Trade Center..... God did all of that to glorify Himself. :vomit:

John the Baptist, Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, Mother Theresa they are all the same aren't they? All perfectly fulfilling God's will to glorify Himself right?

Right????

:rolleyes:
If you think you're any better than Hitler, you have a lot of spiritul "growing" to do....
 
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