Are You Qualified to be the Executioner?

[JudgeRightly]

Seriously, you need it explained? Just look at the "Of Mice & Men" example again. Did Lennie mean to kill Curly's wife? No, did she die, yes, was it a heinous crime? No. Was it a tragedy? Yes. Do the math.

Which reminds me, and leads me to retract my previous change of mind on this matter...

How many times in "Of Mice and Men" did Lennie kill an animal unintentionally?

Or at least, was it often enough to make mention of it in the narrative?

Seems to me like that was one of the main themes throughout the book.

So Lennie was known to kill creatures, even if unintentionally, if he lost control.

Once Lennie killed a person, Curly's wife, a judge would have looked at his past, and recognized that Lennie was a danger to those around him, because of his (yes, unintentional) killing of animals, and now a woman, and he should have been put to death, not by George, but by Curly.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Ok so it looks like you're just defining "heinous" to mean whatever you want it to mean

Since it doesn't mean anything at all, let's stop paying attention to it, treat it like a tourettes outburst you can't control

The only questions that matter are:

1. Did lenny kill curly's wife?
2. Did lenny know that killing curly's wife was wrong?
3. Should lenny be punished for killing curly's wife?
4. What punishment should be given to lenny for killing curly's wife?

Don't forget: "Has Lennie killed before (human or animal), and if so, what were the circumstances surrounding it?"

 

[JudgeRightly]

What good is there to society in executing a child as some here advocate?

Well, in the case of Thompson and Venables, it would have prevented them from committing further crimes that degrade society even further... such as posession of child pornography.

A woman kills her aggressively abusive husband. She saved society from him, does she deserve to be killed as well?

Did she kill him as he was abusing her? or did she kill him while he was sitting around reading the newspaper?

The former is potentially justifiable, the latter is murder.

Yes, there are times when people should be executed. I don't think that we as representatives of God's forgiveness in our lives should be the ones leading the charge for more executions.

Forgiveness this, forgiveness that.

You undermine the gospel of God when you teach superfluous forgiveness.

kgov.com/forgiveness

 

[JudgeRightly]

That's not always a possibility

Sure it is!

otherwise there'd be no call for any sort of care industry.

There's a call because people are lazy and have lost all respect for the value of life.

Also because of economic issues caused by a number of different reasons, but that's another topic for another time.

That should really be obvious.

:think:

 

[JudgeRightly]

Christ forgave them

Where?

Certainly not in John 8...

You can't be forgiven for something if you haven't been condemned for doing it.

You would be a better witness for ISIS than you are for Christ.

:yawn:

 

[Stripe]

Do you want to stone adulterers?

The government should execute capital criminals.

You want to make this into an emotional thing, but God says to execute "without mercy."

Quit with the emotionalism.

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[ok doser]

Christ forgave them....

"them" who?

all adulterers?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Which reminds me, and leads me to retract my previous change of mind on this matter...

How many times in "Of Mice and Men" did Lennie kill an animal unintentionally?

Or at least, was it often enough to make mention of it in the narrative?

Seems to me like that was one of the main themes throughout the book.

So Lennie was known to kill creatures, even if unintentionally, if he lost control.

Once Lennie killed a person, Curly's wife, a judge would have looked at his past, and recognized that Lennie was a danger to those around him, because of his (yes, unintentional) killing of animals, and now a woman, and he should have been put to death, not by George, but by Curly.

The main theme in Of Mice and Men is the American depression. Yes, Lennie's killed animals in the book but again, never intentionally. He's a grown man with immense physical strength who doesn't realize how much and with the mind a child, something Curly finds out when he tries to beat him up and has his hand crushed for his effort. Even then Lennie isn't violent or wants anything to do with violence. His character didn't deserve to be executed by anybody.

 

[ok doser]

His character didn't deserve to be executed by anybody.

Except for that pesky little fact that he was a murderer, eh?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Sure it is!

No, it isn't and this is such an ignorant statement to make. I'm with a company that specialises in domiciliary care with the aim to help people live as independently as possible and for as long as possible in their own homes. Not everybody has a family or friends for support and that isn't always because they've been abandoned either. Even with those who have loving families then they can't always be there twenty four seven or even be capable of dispensing the required care in plenty cases. Often, care workers help out families by providing much needed additional support. In other areas the family can't give the support required in cases of extreme mental health conditions and challenging behaviours. In some cases people need a care home environment tailored to their specific needs, it doesn't mean their family doesn't care or visit.

There's a call because people are lazy and have lost all respect for the value of life.

Also because of economic issues caused by a number of different reasons, but that's another topic for another time.

On the first point, garbage. On the second, economics can play a part but care still needs to be paid for.

 

[Tambora]

So it wasn't a "heinous crime" then was it? Lennie didn't have any evil intent so he shouldn't be treated as a criminal who kills in cold blood. Your solution just seems to be to kill Lennie as oppose to him being given care and separated from the public.

His brother was his guardian, but it did nothing to prevent Lennie from killing (whether he meant to or not).
Lennie also didn't mean to kill the mouse, but he did because he could not control himself.
Didn't he also kill a puppy? (I may be getting my books mixed up.)
He was dangerous to society even though he did not mean to be.

 

[CabinetMaker]

Well, in the case of Thompson and Venables, it would have prevented them from committing further crimes that degrade society even further... such as posession of child pornography.

Locking them away for life would have achieved the same result.

Did she kill him as he was abusing her? or did she kill him while he was sitting around reading the newspaper?

The former is potentially justifiable, the latter is murder.

I would not agree with your analyses at all. That he is not abusing her at this particular moment does not mean that he is not still an abuser just waiting till the time when he will abuse her again.

Forgiveness this, forgiveness that.

You undermine the gospel of God when you teach superfluous forgiveness.

kgov.com/forgiveness

I do not consider Bob Enyart an inspired teacher. The Gospel is supposed to be Good News. It is supposed to give people hope that God wants everybody to live with Him in Heaven. Few will accept the invitation but it is available to all. Yet so many Christians preach that God wants homosexuals and adulterers and rape victims and fornicators and kids who smite their parents and false witness all stoned to death. In the ONLY example we have from Christ, you know, our Lord and Savior, Jesus forgave the woman. Interestingly, she did not even ask for forgiveness and He still forgave here.

What is your measure? Are you comfortable being judged by your measure?

 

[Arthur Brain]

His brother was his guardian, but it did nothing to prevent Lennie from killing (whether he meant to or not).
Lennie also didn't mean to kill the mouse, but he did because he could not control himself.
Didn't he also kill a puppy? (I may be getting my books mixed up.)
He was dangerous to society even though he did not mean to be.

He's simply a guy who doesn't know his own strength. He never intends to kill animal or human in the book. The only time he resorts to violence is when he protects himself from Curly's assault. There's ways to protect society from unwitting people like Lennie besides killing them.

 

[CabinetMaker]

"them" who?

all adulterers?

All sinners. All. It is not your sins that condemn you before God, it is what you do with His Son in your life. If you surrender to Jesus and follow in His footsteps, you will be welcomed home. How do you know if you are following in His footsteps. Read my signature.

 

[ok doser]

in a discussion about civil law, CM writes:

Christ forgave (all sinners)

Then why don't you? I've seen you advocate for civil penalties for criminal behavior.

 

[ok doser]

If Christ forgave all sinners, why have any penalties at all for theft, rape, murder?

 

[CabinetMaker]

in a discussion about civil law, CM writes:

Then why don't you? I've seen you advocate for civil penalties for criminal behavior.

Ah, but there is the question! In a civil society, laws are required to maintain order. The only thing a law can do, any law (including God's law), is to set forth unacceptable acts and proscribe punishment. A law, including God's law, cannot save anybody, they can only condemn. I support the laws that we make to manage and maintain our society including the punishment prescribed by those laws. But God's expectations for me as a believer are different. I do not believe that God wants me to be the executioner, He wants me to be the one helps a prodigal child return home to the Father that loves them. Killing people is easy. Turning a soul towards Christ is hard and much more rewarding.

 

[Stripe]

Coward.

:yawn:

Troll. :troll:

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[ok doser]

... I support the laws that we make to manage and maintain our society ....

Even when they violate God's Law?

 

[Tambora]

He's simply a guy who doesn't know his own strength.

And killed because of it.
What should Lennie's brother have done to protect society from his brother Lennie?