Are you born again (John 3)? Take this test.

Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
marke said:
I have been persuaded that the New Testament refered gatherings of born again Christians as churches even as modern gatherings of Christians are referred to as churches.
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I have been persuaded that you are stubborn and do not want to understand the truth.
You are stuck in the myths of Churchianity and you are not alone. Most of the so-called "Christian world" is there as well. That probably makes you feel very comfortable.
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part
marke said:
Paul ministered to NT churches throughout the Middle East during his ministry.
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Paul did not preach Israel's new covenant in any church.

Paul was forbidden to go to certain areas in the Middle East.

Acts 16:6 (AKJV/PCE)​
(16:6) Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, ​
marke said:
I find no specific mention of him ministering to Jewish churches that were not part of the body of Christ.
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You do not understand what the body of Christ is.

It is not the JEWISH church in Jerusalem that had TWELVE apostles that will sit on TWELVE thrones judging the TWELVE tribes of ISRAEL.

Matt 19:28 (AKJV/PCE)​
(19:28) And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. ​

The body of Christ began with Paul. Paul is the PATTERN for us in this church.

1Tim 1:16 (AKJV/PCE)​
(1:16) Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.​
 
Clete

Clete

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Nick M said:
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

You can't tell where they came from or where they went. Like the wind. Nicodemus was supposed to know. Are you born again according to what the Lord Jesus Christ stated right there? Are there examples of this in the New Testament? From Luke.

31 Then their eyes were opened and they knew Him; and He vanished from their sight.

35 And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of bread. 36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.

Retold in John. At least I think it is the same event.

19 Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.”

I'm just trying to help you with your bad theology. We all have had it, some longer than others. As you can see, he met the conditions of John 3, which is prophecy. Nicodemus was supposed to know. Martha knew, Nicodemus did not. According to the Lord Jesus Christ in John 3:8, do you meet what he says is of those that are born of the Spirit?

​

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So, I've not read the thread but can see that Right Divider is participating and so am VERY confident that this point has already been made, but here goes nothing.....


Christians today are not born again, they are new creations.

Same thing? No, not really. In some contexts they could be synonymous but the distinction in this context is important because Jesus was not preaching salvation by grace to Nicodemus nor had He previously preached it to Martha. In fact, no one had preached today's gospel of grace prior to the risen (and subsequently rejected by Israel) Jesus had given that gospel by direct divine revelation to the Apostle Paul (Gal. 1:11-12).

Further, I notice that you make no effort whatsoever to explain just what Jesus meant by "but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit". You emphasis it as as test but give no explanation of what it means or how to apply it as a test for one's salvation. Are we to move around like Ninjas, appearing out of nowhere and then disappearing in puffs of smoke, or what?
 
Right Divider

Right Divider

Body part

https://graceambassadors.com/tradition/why-you-cant-be-born-again​

Why You Can’t Be Born Again​


Justin Johnson


Ever since Chuck Colson’s popular biography, being “born again” has been a mainstream euphemism for a salvation experience.
Some have used “born again” as a way to separate the devout from the nominal Christian. Unfortunately, many believe they are saved because they have a “born again” feeling, changed life, or emotional experience and have no testimony of trusting Christ’s finished work on the cross.
When studied from the Bible rightly divided, “born again” is something that only Israel could do. No Gentile could be born again.
Israel’s First Birth
To understand why only Israel could be born again, we must know how they were born the first time.
In Exodus the nation of Israel was born the first time when God delivered them out of Egypt. The LORD calls the nation his firstborn son.
“And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn: And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me…” – Exodus 4:22-23
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Having been delivered and redeemed from Egypt, Israel was given the law, the Mosaic covenant, that sanctified them as a people.
Israel’s Need for a Second Birth
Over time Israel became disobedient and where the law was sin abounded. They were no longer bound by Egypt, but they were bound by the covenant to their sins with no way out.
As Israel’s sins grew it was clear that merely being born a Jew into the promises and covenants of God was not able to cause them to serve the Lord.
The prophets spoke of a better covenant that would replace the old for the house of Israel (Jer 31:31). This new covenant would include the impartation of God’s Spirit to cause them to walk in his statutes (Eze 36:27).
It was this new covenant that was necessary for God to fulfill his kingdom promises to Israel.
Nicodemus and Born Again
That the prophets already spoke about Israel’s new covenant is why when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus about being born again he said:
“Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?” – John 3:10
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Nicodemus should have known that Israel had a great need, and that the need was for their nation to be redeemed from their old covenant bondage to enter the kingdom God had promised them.
“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” – John 3:3
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Jesus made it clear to Nicodemus that the nation had to be born again when he said “Ye must be born again.” (John 3:7 -We know that “ye” is the plural pronoun; and “thee” the singular.)
Jesus came to Israel ministering their need for being born again through a better covenant. No longer would Israel be identified by the old covenant but by the new.
People who think they are born again must also think they are in some way Israel.
A New Creature
Only Israel could be born again, because only Israel was born unto God a first time (Exo 4:22). You can’t be born again, because you are not saved by being Israel or by Israel’s covenants.
Gentiles were strangers of the covenants and without God (Eph 2:12). Gentiles were not born into God’s covenants. Our salvation would not be a second time opportunity for us. It would be the first time salvation was offered directly to us without Israel.
Our salvation by grace is not consequent to a changed life, a Spirit unction, or a better way to obey God’s statutes.
Our salvation is not described as being born again into a second covenant, but being made alive into a new creature (Eph 2:15). This new creature, called the Body of Christ, is neither Jewish nor Gentile, and operates not under the law (Rom 6:14; Gal 3:28).
The new creature is the subject of the mystery of Christ and could not have been known by Nicodemus, the prophets, nor any of the apostles in John 3.
Herein is the Problem…
When people use “born again” language to describe their salvation today, it hides the preaching of the cross, which is unique to the formation of the new creature by God’s grace.
“Born again” language takes us back to before the cross in John 3 and replaces the gospel of Christ with Israel’s new covenant.
Born again language is a denial of the mystery of Christ revealed to the apostle Paul.
People who think they are born again must also think they are in some way Israel.
Conclusion
Being born again is something for Israel to partake. Since Israel is fallen, you couldn’t be born again if you wanted to.
What you can be is saved by God’s grace through faith in his finished work on the cross. At the moment you believe, the Holy Spirit seals you in Christ making you part of a new creature.
Trusting the cross of Christ is what will save you today. Trusting your experience, devotion, or changed life will not. Being saved is far better than being born again.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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Clete said:
Further, I notice that you make no effort whatsoever to explain just what Jesus meant by "but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
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Sure I did. I used scripture to explain scripture. I probably could have given other examples in the original post.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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marke said:
I believe the transition from Jew to the Church was gradual, so to speak, and not instantaneous.
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I mentioned the revelation to Paul was gradual. It is in the text. Pentecost is a Jewish event. Just like Passover. The move to the body is abrupt. There is nothing new in early Acts.

Paul was saved in an instant. He is the pattern.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Nick M said:
This is a tangent, but it is common in the religion of Christianity, especially "Protestants" from the catholic perspective to use silly buzzwords. This is commonly one of them. Yes, the translation is wrong. Logos is logic and reasoning.
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glorydaz

glorydaz

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This has been a great thread, Nick.

I would like to mention Rev. 19:13, where His name is called the Word of God. I can’t remember who mentioned it being His name, but thought it should be noted.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

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Nick M said:
Sure, but that is an English translation. The word in Greek is logic and reason.
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I think I can remember this topic. So logic became flesh and dwelt among us. I don’t want to side track your thread, but I wonder what the Hebrew would say. It just strikes me as odd considering it’s His name. 🤔
 
Nick M

Nick M

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glorydaz said:
I think I can remember this topic. So logic became flesh and dwelt among us. I don’t want to side track your thread, but I wonder what the Hebrew would say. It just strikes me as odd considering it’s His name. 🤔
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How can Words be his name? Logic and reason can certainly be an identity. We know he is more than that, but that is what John said in chapter 1. He wrote his bio in Greek.
 
glorydaz

glorydaz

Well-known member
Nick M said:
How can Words be his name? Logic and reason can certainly be an identity. We know he is more than that, but that is what John said in chapter 1. He wrote his bio in Greek.
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Word not words. I believe it’s more accurate because HE SPOKE the world into existence. “And God said let there be light.” Also, being Jewish, I don’t think John wrote his epistle in Greek. I would assume it was translated into the Greek.
 
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