ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 3
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
genuineoriginal
New member
Why would you think God does not know our minds?
Jeremiah 17:10 10 I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings. |
God sees whether we are obedient in this life, so He will know whether we will continue to be obedient.
Romans 6:16 16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? |
You keep thinking the answer lies in omniscience, when it really lies in omnipotence.
Numbers 11:23 23 And the Lord said unto Moses, Is the Lord'S hand waxed short? thou shalt see now whether my word shall come to pass unto thee or not. |
That, right there, says it all.
Lon
Well-known member
[B said:
Not well thought out, you two. First of all, OV denies omnipotence, even if neither of you do.
2nd, omnipotence requires omniscience in order to work and is why the OV denies it. If you give in on one omni- you give in to them all (not that, that would bother me in the least).
genuineoriginal
New member
Open Theism does not deny omnipotence. It can be found in the Hebrew, Greek, and Latin Bibles.
שַׁדַּי Shadday
I.almighty, most powerful
I.almighty, most powerful
παντοκράτωρ pantokratōr
III.almighty
III.almighty
omnipotens
1.omnipotent, all-powerful, almighty
1.omnipotent, all-powerful, almighty
Apparantly you don't know what omnipotence is.
Omnipotence
The word "Omnipotence" derives from the Latin term "Omni Potens", meaning "All-Powerful" instead of "Infinite Power" implied by its English counterpart. The term could be applied to both deities and Roman Emperors. Being the one with "All the power", it was not uncommon for nobles to attempt to prove their Emperor's "Omni Potens" to the people, by demonstrating his effectiveness at leading the Empire.[3]
The word "Omnipotence" derives from the Latin term "Omni Potens", meaning "All-Powerful" instead of "Infinite Power" implied by its English counterpart. The term could be applied to both deities and Roman Emperors. Being the one with "All the power", it was not uncommon for nobles to attempt to prove their Emperor's "Omni Potens" to the people, by demonstrating his effectiveness at leading the Empire.[3]
His Omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible. You may attribute miracles to him, but not nonsense. This is no limit to his power. If you choose to say 'God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it,' you have not succeeded in saying anything about God: meaningless combinations of words do not suddenly acquire meaning simply because we prefix to them the two other words 'God can.'... It is no more possible for God than for the weakest of his creatures to carry out both of two mutually exclusive alternatives; not because his power meets an obstacle, but because nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God. — C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain 18 |
:rotfl:
You obviously don't know much about יְהֹוָה אֵל שַׁדַּי
Numbers 11:23 23 And the Lord said unto Moses, Is the Lord'S hand waxed short? thou shalt see now whether my word shall come to pass unto thee or not. |
Isaiah 46:11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. |
God has the ability to accomplish everything He promises.
That is what makes Him Almighty.
God is not an impotent Cassandra with the power of foresight while being unable to do anything about what He sees.
You'd think.That's also not true.
Come on brother... you have been here a long time, you should know the arguments better by now.
It's almost like Calvinism causes worse brain damage than Cannabis Sativa.
Lon
Well-known member
I understand you both getting mad that anyone would dare question but could we simply discuss without the absurd? Thanks.
Read up a bit and come back (Battle Royale)?
See:
You two aren't answering my question btw, just changing the goal post (away from the question) and getting a bit defensive.
My question was how God could know Abraham's mind when he didn't actually kill his son. How could God have possibly known if Abraham would have followed through according to Open View? To me, anything short of killing his son would have left me guessing unless God knew minds and hearts of man.
Read up a bit and come back (Battle Royale)?
See:
And what follows.Dr. Lamerson said:
You two aren't answering my question btw, just changing the goal post (away from the question) and getting a bit defensive.
My question was how God could know Abraham's mind when he didn't actually kill his son. How could God have possibly known if Abraham would have followed through according to Open View? To me, anything short of killing his son would have left me guessing unless God knew minds and hearts of man.
Lon
Well-known member
Okay, this is a bit of a Battle Royale 10 commercial, but it's worth spotlighting and reading again. It was definitive for some of this contention and it is important that you all understand my questions are coming from things both Enyart and Lamerson stated (maybe I should have started this in the discussion thread) :think:That's also not true.
Come on brother... you have been here a long time, you should know the arguments better by now.
Absurd?? What did I say that was absurd?
God DOES know the hearts and minds of men. He also knows our every intention. He also knows moment by moment how our intentions are changing (if they are changing).
God knows all of that.
God knows.... everything knowable. After all.... He is omniscient.
He's gone mad. All logic, reason and rationale are absurd to him.
Lon
Well-known member
Sorry, I took awhile before posting, I meant Ge and Lh. My apologies, you can imagine my surprise when I saw about 5 posts between post and submit
Lon
Well-known member
You are killin' me, Smalls.
Lon
Well-known member
Btw, was going to fix but realized my edit button doesn't work in the ARCHIVE? Is that right?
Lon
Well-known member
:chuckle: Good movie, back to discussion...
I suppose calling me MAD wasn't meant in a bad light :chuckle:
Lon
Well-known member
This, btw, partially answered my question. Thanks.
I disagree, but was looking for how an Open Theist understood this.
Would it then be, that God didn't know Abraham's mind but He does our's? Would that be a correct summation?