ARCHIVE: Open Theism part 2

[Mystery]

Lighthouse is not a sinner, ask him.

Neither am I.

No sinner has eternal life. Bad news for you.

There is no such thing as a human being who is without sin ...

So the blood of Jesus does not cleanse anyone from ALL sin, even though the bible says it does?

... except for Jesus, of course.

And those that are in Him.

Nor is there such a thing as a worthless human being.

The bible says otherwise.

 

[Lighthouse]

Lighthouse is not a sinner, ask him.

Neither are Knight, Jefferson, Turbo, Lucky, Bob Enyart, d2i, Maximeee, DXPose, etc. And neither are you.

 

[Philetus]

"All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." (Rom. 3:12)

"This is what the Lord says: 'What fault did your fathers find in me, that they strayed so far from me? They followed worthless idols and became worthless themselves.'" (Jer. 2:5)

Yes, those who follow false gods of any sort have no worth, they are worthless, useless, unprofitable, Scripture says this.

God values human lives, we should too, and should indeed not be like Muslim terrorists who blow up people indiscriminately without regard for human life. For people are created in God's image, but to say there is worth apart from Christ and the presence of God, is a mistake.

"Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy" (Rev. 3:4). This would imply that those who have soiled their clothes, including unbelievers, are not.

Blessings,
Lee

Hi, Lee.

'Not worthy' isn't the same as 'worthless'. You as much as said so above. Who are you arguing with? There is no worthiness apart from Christ ... that doesn't equate to worthlessness.

Philetus

 

[Philetus]

Neither are Knight, Jefferson, Turbo, Lucky, Bob Enyart, d2i, Maximeee, DXPose, etc. And neither are you.

You are right. Now are we going to play cat and mouse with do 'saints' sin?

 

[Lighthouse]

You are right. Now are we going to play cat and mouse with do 'saints' sin?

That which is in Christ does not sin. The flesh is not in Christ, and is full of sin. That which is sanctified does not. Understand?

 

[Mystery]

"Now the sons of Eli were worthless men; they did not know the LORD"

This word means exactly what it says. They were "good for nothing". It is the same word carried over into the Greek that Paul used in Romans.

 

[Philetus]

Neither am I.

No sinner has eternal life. Bad news for you.

So the blood of Jesus does not cleanse anyone from ALL sin, even though the bible says it does?



And those that are in Him.
The bible says otherwise.

I'm not a sinner. I'm a saint. That's my identity in Christ. So, eat your heart out. Yeper, I'm a saint who sins and the blood of Jesus goes on cleansing me from all unrighteousness and I have eternal life. Do I deserve it? Not in the least. Am I worth it? Only God seems to think so.

 

[lee_merrill]

Hi Philetus,

'Not worthy' isn't the same as 'worthless'. You as much as said so above.

No, let's read the verses here:

"All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." (Rom. 3:12)

"This is what the Lord says: 'What fault did your fathers find in me, that they strayed so far from me? They followed worthless idols and became worthless themselves.'" (Jer. 2:5)

Then those who follow false gods of any sort have no worth, they are worthless, useless, unprofitable, Scripture says this.

There is no worthiness apart from Christ ... that doesn't equate to worthlessness.

Without worth, no worthiness, it seems Scripture states both, for some. Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost, perished, spilled, ruined, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us, and this shows the depths of God's love, and our unworthiness, even worthlessness apart from Christ. Again, this does not mean we should not value human life, only we should also not think that any human endeavor or potential is profitable in the sight of God apart from faith.

"Before him all the nations are as nothing; they are regarded by him as worthless and less than nothing." (Isa. 40:17)

Blessings,
Lee

 

[Philetus]

That which is in Christ does not sin. The flesh is not in Christ, and is full of sin. That which is sanctified does not. Understand?

Yep!

Saying we are without sin is, well, almost sinful, isn't it?

Confessing our sin isn't sinful. Saying we are without sin makes God out to be a liar. We wouldn't want to do that now, would we?

Round and round and round we go.

What shall separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus?

Nothing! Doesn’t mean they don’t exist just that they can’t separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

 

[Lighthouse]

Yep!

Saying we are without sin is, well, almost sinful, isn't it?

Confessing our sin isn't sinful. Saying we are without sin makes God out to be a liar. We wouldn't want to do that now, would we?

Round and round and round we go.

What shall separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus?

Nothing! Doesn’t mean they don’t exist just that they can’t separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

I sin in the flesh. I do not sin in Christ.

 

[Mystery]

Saying we are without sin is, well, almost sinful, isn't it?

If Jesus says that you have been cleansed from all sin, what do you think it would be to say that you still have it?

Confessing our sin isn't sinful.

If Jesus says that He has cleansed you from all sin, and you say that you still have it, you are calling Jesus a liar.

Saying we are without sin makes God out to be a liar.

That only applies to those who have not been cleansed from it. Once they are cleansed, it is calling God a liar to say that you still have it.


You need a course in logic.

 

[Philetus]

"Now the sons of Eli were worthless men; they did not know the LORD"

This word means exactly what it says. They were "good for nothing". It is the same word carried over into the Greek that Paul used in Romans.

I know lots of 'good for nothing" worthless scumbags. I'm one. And God still loves me and everyone of them. Heck, God still loves even you. (I'm not so sure about Lighthouse. Just Kidding. :chuckle: ) It's a mystery for sewer; God has ascribed infinite worth to our miserable existence and person. Go figure.

 

[Philetus]

I sin in the flesh. I do not sin in Christ.

round and round and roudn and unsoudn and I sin, andI son't din and I sin and isownt nis ...
dualism at its worst.

 

[Mystery]

I know lots of 'good for nothing" worthless scumbags. I'm one. And God still loves me and everyone of them. Heck, God still loves even you. (I'm not so sure about Lighthouse. Just Kidding. :chuckle: ) It's a mystery for sewer; God has ascribed infinite worth to our miserable existence and person. Go figure.

You are making things up out of your own imagination. You are ascribing something to us based on your inability to reason.

God loves us because He is worthy to love those who are worthless. It is because of His greatness that He can give worth to something that has no worth. You are attempting to steal God's glory for yourself, and you are too blind to see it.

 

[Philetus]

If Jesus says that you have been cleansed from all sin, what do you think it would be to say that you still have it?

If Jesus says that He has cleansed you from all sin, and you say that you still have it, you are calling Jesus a liar.

That only applies to those who have not been cleansed from it. Once they are cleansed, it is calling God a liar to say that you still have it.


You need a course in logic.

Been cleansed, being cleansed and gona be cleansed of those sins I commit 'in the flesh' that I don't want to admit but can't hide from Jesus so I confess even though I ain't got em and don't do 'em.

round and round and round


(get real)

 

[Mystery]

Philetus, you are not very bright, are you?

If you have a dollar bill in your hand and I take it from you, would you be lying if you say you still have it?

Yes or no?


(I suspect the same kind of ignorance from you as I get from godrulz when he refuses to answer the same question, but at least everyone else will know how foolish you guys are)

 

[elected4ever]

"It's a mystery for sewer"; Is that where your mind is Philetus

 

[Nang]

Yep!

Saying we are without sin is, well, almost sinful, isn't it?

Confessing our sin isn't sinful. Saying we are without sin makes God out to be a liar. We wouldn't want to do that now, would we?

Round and round and round we go.

What shall separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus?

Nothing! Doesn’t mean they don’t exist just that they can’t separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

You are giving answer here to:

Originally Posted by Lighthouse
That which is in Christ does not sin. The flesh is not in Christ, and is full of sin. That which is sanctified does not. Understand?


This is Gnostic thought.

Christian continue to be sinners, even though they have the Holy Spirit indwelling. This causes a tension between flesh and spirit as taught by Paul in Romans 7&8.

This is the reason and necessity for the Holy Spirit in us to intercede on our behalf in prayer, and this is the reason and necessity for Jesus Christ to mediate on our behalf at the right hand of the Father.

We are saved by this grace, not by any removal of sin from our persons. Sins are forgiven and propitiated, but they are not removed. The wages of sin (death) has been paid, and therefore the Father can look upon us and see no sin, because we are accepted by Him in Christ, the Beloved. (Eph. 1:6)

Nang

 

[Philetus]

You are making things up out of your own imagination. You are ascribing something to us based on your inability to reason.

God loves us because He is worthy to love those who are worthless. It is because of His greatness that He can give worth to something that has no worth. You are attempting to steal God's glory for yourself, and you are too blind to see it.

DOES GOD GIVE WORTH TO SOMETHING THAT OTHERWISE HAS NO WORTH.

IF GOD ASCRIBES IT WORTH WHO ARE YOU TO SAY IT IS STILL WORTHLESS TO GOD?

I'm not stealing anything from God. I'm acknowledging His gift.

The lug nuts on your bus are loose.

 

[Philetus]

Philetus, you are not very bright, are you?

If you have a dollar bill in your hand and I take it from you, would you be lying if you say you still have it?

Yes or no?


(I suspect the same kind of ignorance from you as I get from godrulz when he refuses to answer the same question, but at least everyone else will know how foolish you guys are)

Nope. Any fool can plainly see the absurdity of your position and I can plainly see it.:chew: