themuzicman
Well-known member
bling said:Again, I do not know how God’s foreknowledge works or how future works. Once you step out of our three dimensional world you leave science behind. Do you believe God is trapped inside our three dimensional world?
What does this have to do with a three dimensional world? It's a logical proof. Do you believe God is logical?
The human as a free will agent makes moral decisions he can be held accountable for making. God did not cause humans to make these free will decisions or they would not be held accountable, but God knows at least some of them prior to the human knowing them as an example: John the Baptist before his conception, Peter hours before his denials, Judas before his betrayal, or the Jewish spiritual leadership before condemning Christ.
Well, this is also an epistemological argument. Unless you're just going to appeal to mystery, there isn't much wiggle room.
All of these things can be dealt with without Exhaustive Definite Foreknowledge.
I would not think it was impossible for God to know all human free will decisions before the creation of this world, but I do not know how He would know them, but I do not understand how any miracle is done. You are trying to put God into a logical system to reasoning out how things can or can not be done, is that logical in itself?
That's the mind that God gave us. I
f you're going to say that you don't know, then say you don't know. But don't make a counter claim based upon "I don't know." You cannot make a claim for or against EDF from "I don't know."
If you want cause then “God caused humans to be made that make decisions they can be held accountable for making without making the decisions for them.”
Which, as I've demonstrated, is logically incompatible with exhaustive definite foreknowledge.
I actually agree with your statement. I disagree with your assertion about God's knowledge of the future.
From your little analogy: What makes things unchangeable in the future is the human’s free will decision that will not change, because it is known by God and not God making the decision. Since the human is making the decision he is held accountable. I see God defining free will decisions as those decisions the agent can be held accountable for making.
Apparently you can't see that because all our future decisions will be unchangeable, they cannot be free decisions.
Muz