Can you believe I've been on here for just over 3 months and didn't know this thread existed?
Give me time, with 5000 posts I've got a lot of reading to catch up on.
First off, I am going to repeat this over and over and over and over. I believe strongly that much of the problem is a communication gap.
From spending time here, I can see a few points and I'll continue to read and post here so that we might be able to dialogue more correctly.
1) The approach to understanding is completely different so that we are really almost talking about 2 entirely different things when discussing the same terms.
2) We have a diffferent commitment to knowledge here. The SV says that there are characteristics that belong to God that cannot be fully known or expressed because they are His characteristics alone and we do not share them so see Him through a glass darkly. What this means, is that the SV position will always be an incomplete and attackable theology. We continue to make concessions for our understanding because we are trying to put together a puzzle where God speciffically has not given us all the pieces and has promised to do so at a later date.
3) Our commitments or rejection of the 'greek' influences will continue to be a wedge. The SV position isn't so much committed to all greek ideology as they are to coincidal truth of the matter. You can blame the greeks, but our position comes naturally from scripture and most SV isn't as linked to greek philosophy as you purport. Until this idea is either dismissed or at least recognized as not a true factor, you'll continue to make a faulty assumption much like we do with Sanders and other early OV writers(Pinnock). We
both have to get to a point where we recognize that some of our founders' writings do not adequately express all of our views.
We need to go back to ontological meaning for almost all of our terms and discuss them for meaning. I've seen both sides reject the other's view and I'm convinced that neither understands what the other is saying. Here is a started thread for instance that speaks to this directly:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35664&page=1&pp=15
We need to stop prejudice. Sanders and Pinnock are often used to refute OV theism. Greeks are used to refute SV and nobody gets down to talking about what they really believe. On top of this, once a discussion does get started, accusations start flying and instead of asking "what do you mean?" we either blast the individual as being retarded or go back to dissing on the forefathers again.
What if I said "I hate OV theology." So what? If you said "I hate SV theology." So what?
I do not hate OV, I just don't happen to agree with the position but I care about OVer's because I believe they love God. I believe they love Jesus. You know what I find interesting? When Jesus was walking in Israel, He didn't really get into the theology debate that often. Did you notice? He could have easily settled many many debates between the Sadducees and Pharisees (the OV SV of the day?). Maybe He did a bit more correcting than the disciples wrote. John said if it were all written down, no library could contain the books. That's pretty powerful. So what are we left with? Know Jesus, live for Him and make Him known. That seems pretty reasonable to me. I'm not too hung up on our differences. For the record, I don't think I could ever be a true OV, but what I appreciate is that I can talk to those who need Jesus here and I pray over every post I write to them in hopes that one might come to the Jesus I love so much.
Sure, let's continue to talk about our differences but let's focus on things Jesus tended to focus on, Major on the Majors and minor on the minors. Theology is important. Being right is important. We agree on the Majority of the rights, let's reach those who need Him most. I have no problem if an unbeliever becomes SV or OV. I honestly believe that we will not be OV or SV in heaven. I'd like to hope I'm more right than wrong, but the one thing I do know is that Jesus saves and our world desperately needs Him.