patman
Active member
lee_merrill said:Yet you are not addressing my questions, and conclusions cannot do the work of arguments.
How then did God plan the cross, where he knew people would sin, and bring it about, without being an agent in that sinning happening?
Isaiah 53:10 Yet it was the Lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the Lord makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days…
Romans 5:20-21 The law was added so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more, so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 11:32 For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
Clearly God is the cause here, and these resulting sinful actions are in his plan.
Amos 3:6 When a trumpet sounds in a city, do not the people tremble? When disaster comes to a city, has not the Lord caused it?
Isaiah 10:16-17 Does the ax raise itself above him who swings it, or the saw boast against him who uses it? As if a rod were to wield him who lifts it up, or a club brandish him who is not wood! Isaiah Therefore, the Lord, the LORD Almighty, will send a wasting disease upon his sturdy warriors...
Jeremiah 30:14-15 All your allies have forgotten you; they care nothing for you. I have struck you as an enemy would and punished you as would the cruel, because your guilt is so great and your sins so many. Why do you cry out over your wound, your pain that has no cure? Because of your great guilt and many sins I have done these things to you.
Yet Scripture tells us directly who was the cause of what happened to Job:
Job 42:11 All his brothers and sisters and everyone who had known him before came and ate with him in his house. They comforted and consoled him over all the trouble the Lord had brought upon him, and each one gave him a piece of silver and a gold ring.
Satan was an instrument in God's hand, as (quite sinful) Assyria was an instrument in God's hand above (Isa. 10:16).
Lee,
You must realize when you are in a discussion with someone, it is not a benefit to the discussion to just start throwing things up that are not relivant to the current content.
We are talking about Job mostly. And now you are wanting me to explain to you how the rest of your verses are not a problem to the Open View? Lee, for the life of me I can't even get you to admit Satan struck Job!
The scripture is clear. Satan did it! God even said he did it. And you can't understand that, you want me to tackle everything else too? Lee, you have so many ideas that are misleading you, I don't know where to start. I cant discuss everything with you because you can't even agree with me about this one simple thing.
Just let it go! Job was struck by Satan, it was Satan's idea to do it, it was his test, he did it. The story is clear. Your "proof" verse contradicts the words of GOD himself, as you use it. You again show him disrespect, saying his very words "Satan will afflict Job" are wrong?
Just drop it. You don't have to believe God was after Job.
I feel you cannot be reasoned with. No matter what scripture says, quoting the very mouth of God, you still undermine it intentionally. God's words from his mouth should be better respected.