ARCHIVE: Neither a borrower . . . .

[Turbo]

Originally posted by billwald

Why do you think [the ten commandments] works for the Christian life?

Did I say that?

Christians are not under the law. They are made righteous by the blood of Christ, not by following a set of rules. Unbelievers are condemned according to the Law, but not the symbolic laws, which were only for Israel.

 

[Zakath]

Turbo,

Perhaps a bit of clarification would help here...

When you say "Christians are not under the law", do you consider the decalogue to be part of what the Jews (and Paul) referred to as "The Law"? :think:

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by billwald

In the same way, "Love God and Love Neighbor" is a summary of the NT (Christian) Law.

No, they are Old Testament laws that act as a further summarization of the 613 (and of the 10).

• 
  You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the LORD. Leviticus 19:18
  
  You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. Deuteronomy 6:5

Why, then, do we bother to read the rest if it isn't necessary for the Mosiac Covenant? Because the Mosiac Covenant isn't applicable to gentiles.

Which gentiles are you talking about? Believers, unbelievers, or both?

You know, we're going to end up talking about Paul sooner or later, since his epistles were for the gentiles. It's too bad you don't believe Peter, the Twelve, and Luke when they say that Paul's ministry is legitimate, and that his epistles are Scripture.

It is bad theology and bad logic to say that we worship on the Lord's Day because the Church changed the Sabbath.

And you've never seen me say such a thing.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by Zakath

Turbo,

Perhaps a bit of clarification would help here...

When you say "Christians are not under the law", do you consider the decalogue to be part of what the Jews (and Paul) referred to as "The Law"? :think:

Yes.

 

[elected4ever]

I think that for the Christian to commit to criminal justice law the tenants of the Jewish law is an exercise in futility. It will never happen and should never happen. Why should any Christian want to be entangled again with what he has been liberated from?:freak:

Having said that I believe that the law is a pretty good guide to use when we are instructed to endeavor to live peaceably within our societies. The law in the society of one's dwelling renders all other law moot but that does not negate the Christian from a higher principle of personal conduct.

Though we are not under any law and therefore without sin in Christ Jesus society has a differing opinion and can very will imprison a Cristian or anyone else for doing what is good and right. Case in point The summary execution of murderers; Those who pray on the innocent and helpless. Society protect them and the one defending the right cause is executed.

e4e

 

[Zakath]

Turbo,

Thank you for clarifying that point. :thumb:

Perhaps you could assist me further by describing how you see the difference between what you referred to as "symbolic" laws and "moral" laws.

Also, from your point of view, are there other categories of laws contained in the 613 mitzvot? If so, what are they?

Your answers will be very helpful in my understanding of your position.

 

[billwald]

>Which gentiles are you talking about? Believers, unbelievers, or both?

All gentiles living outside of Nation of Israel.

Problem with getting one's theology from Paul's letters is that it is like listening to only one side of a telephone conversation. Theologians assume the other side based upon what they want Paul to mean.

 

[Big Finn]

Zakath,

Oh really? Where do you find such instructions regarding placing of the mitzvot on the Ark?

That doesn't seem to be familiar to any of my research sources. Since the bulk of your post depends on this typology, I"ll respond to the rest of your post after you explain where you came up with this idea.,

Deu 31:23 And Jehovah commanded Joshua the son of Nun, and said, Be strong and courageous; for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I have sworn unto them; and I will be with thee.
Deu 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had ended writing the words of this law in a book, until their conclusion,
Deu 31:25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of Jehovah, saying,
Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it at the side of the ark of the covenant of Jehovah your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee;

Deu 9:9 When I was gone up into the mount to receive the tables of stone, even the tables of the covenant which the LORD made with you, then I abode in the mount forty days and forty nights, I neither did eat bread nor drink water:

Heb 9:4 Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant

 

[billwald]

"Christians are not under the law. They are made righteous by the blood of Christ, not by following a set of rules."

Correct! But so was Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah . . . made righteous by the "blood of Christ, not by following a set of rules."

(Even) the rabbis now conclude that no one was made righteous by following a set of rules but by repentance and restoraton. The only important difference between Christianity and rabbinical Judaism is the status of Jesus.