ARCHIVE: Is this really demonic doctrine or what...
- Thread starter Freak
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Calvinist
New member
We are all saved by GOD'S grace and nothing more, but He has elected some for salvation according to His own purposes. And He has orderd His most perfect Redemption for those of us in Christ. HOWEVER, If HE choses to Elect some righteous person who does not know of Christ, then He us just to do so. It is God's business not ours.
>We are all saved by GOD'S grace and nothing more, but He has elected some for salvation according to His own purposes. And He has orderd His most perfect Redemption for those of us in Christ. HOWEVER, If HE choses to Elect some righteous person who does not know of Christ, then He us just to do so. It is God's business not ours.<
Scripture...
Scripture...
Calvinist
New member
Scripture for what? Election or the Philosophical Position that since God is in control of HIS universe He can do what he wishes and is always just when doing so?
Election verese:
(Psalms 65:4) "Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple."
(Psalms 105:6) "O ye seed of Abraham his servant, ye children of Jacob his chosen."
(Matthew 24:24) "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."
(Matthew 24:31) "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
(Mark 13:20) "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days."
(John 6:37) "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
(John 6:65) "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."
(John 13:18) "I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."
(John 15:16) "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you."
(John 17:9) "I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine."
(Acts 13:48) "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
(Romans 8:29-30) "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. {30} Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."
(Romans 8:33) "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth."
(Romans 9:11-13) "(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
{12} It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. {13} As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."(Romans 9:23) "And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,"
(Romans 11:5) "Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace."
(Romans 11:7) "What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded"
(Ephesians 1:3-6) "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: {4} According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: {5} Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, {6} To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved."
(Ephesians 1:11) "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"
(1 Thessalonians 1:4) "Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God."
(1 Thessalonians 5:9) "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"
(2 Thessalonians 2:13-14) "But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: {14} Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."
(1 Timothy 5:21) "I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality."
(2 Timothy 1:9-10) "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, {10} But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:"
(2 Timothy 2:10) "Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory."
(Titus 1:1) "Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;"
(1 Peter 1:1) "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,"
(1 Peter 2:9) "But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:"
(1 Peter 5:13) "The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son."
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Dee Dee Warren
Guest
Freak I will get you that documentation. You should know that I did not just state my own opinion since I don't have a horse in this race. I really don't care. I was just posting that information in the interest of being fair. This has not historically been considered a heresy.
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Yxboom
Guest
What about the teaching that a person does not have a God in him but is one :noid:
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Dee Dee Warren
Guest
Good point Boom... Freak is attacking a teaching that was held by the Reformers and accepted within orthodoxy (they did not believe Christ was ontologically an angelic being, any more than we do when we hold that the Angel of the Lord was Christ - which presumably Freak would have no problem with), while defending people who teach or believe utter blasphemy.
Freak
New member
I'd like to see it. I'm curious why you made that statement knowing full well you have nothing to back it up. If your not interested in this thread then leave. Ok?
Theology-
I have answered the detective's questions.
Jesus Christ is fully God, the second person of the triune God. Nobody can come to God except through Jesus Christ (see John 14:6, Acts 12). The buddhist or hindu who lived in 1780 had their opportunity. Paul makes it clear that no one will have an excuse. Everyone will have an opportunity to know God. First, through general revelation (Romans 1), then through the revelation of the conscience (Romans 2), then finally through the revelation of Jesus Christ (for those in remote places can be revealed the Gospel of Jesus Christ through dreams, visions, etc).
Now, answer my questions, detective.....
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Dee Dee Warren
Guest
Freak I have every right to be here as anyone. And I will expect an apology when I provide the documentation. I have to look it up since as I have said this is not a pet issue with me....
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Dee Dee Warren
Guest
How about the Angel of the Lord? Wasn't that Jesus? That was Jesus manifested as an angel.
Freak
New member
I'm still curious why you made the statement knowing full well you did not have any documentation.
Besides, Biblically speaking, the burden of proof lies with you (I could care less what some Reformer believed hundreds of years ago) to prove Biblically that the doctrine Me Again embraces is within the pale of orthodoxy.
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Dee Dee Warren
Guest
And nice dodge on your defense of heresy Freak. But silly us, we expect you to be consistent. You cannot be a heresy hunter and a heresy defender at the same time.
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Dee Dee Warren
Guest
I was arguing history with you Freak.. I don't believe it, so it is in that sense that I really don't care. You can be the lone ranger declaring heresy against the testimony of the historic Church, and that is your business, but you are horribly inconsistent.
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Dee Dee Warren
Guest
Well, well, well, Freak denies that the Angel of the Lord was Christ. I will remember that next time he is defending the Trinity. Are you aware that John the Baptist is also called an "angelos" - angel?
Well Freak, how consistent are you going to be?? Is believing that the Angel of the Lord was Christ heresy?
Well Freak, how consistent are you going to be?? Is believing that the Angel of the Lord was Christ heresy?