ARCHIVE: Is it ever right to deny Christ?

Calvinist

Calvinist

New member
Originally posted by Jaltus
Wow, misappropriation in a big way.

Knight, Paul was saying that what you quoted above was why men SHOULD NOT MARRY. It was not an instruction, it was a point of wrongdoing by the married.

32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs-- how he can please the Lord.
33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world-- how he can please his wife--
34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world-- how she can please her husband.
35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

Note the break between the Lord's affairs and the affairs of the world. Do you seriously think Paul is telling us to ignore the affairs of God for the affairs of this world?

That, my friend, is totally wrong and an awful way to read the Bible.
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Maybe this was not the way to defend his position but he is still right on the money. Here is the great commandment:

Matthew 22
37Jesus said to him, ""You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'[1] 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like it: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'

Doesn't your neighbor include your family?

These two Commandments are ABOVE everything else!!!

Where is the Commandment to "Witness"?
If you find it, demonstrate that the commandment is greater than these?!?! You can't.
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
And Jaltus you are doing some misappropriation in your accusation of misappropriation. First of all, do you really think that this was a recomendation by Paul for all time?? Really?? And Paul was not denigrating the concern and duty that married people have for each other (and other Scripture clearly teaches that such concern is holy), but rather, in light of the rapidly approaching turmoil coming upon the first century believers, and the need for the planting of the Church, he was advocating a temporary attitude, without denigrating marriage or the attitudes that come with marriage. Otherwise, have you settled for second best because you are married?
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jaltus your missing the point.

The point is... we have been given an important responsibility. The responsibility of raising families. Some do not raise families and they can FULLY devote themselves to the Lord and that is a great thing. Others, raise families which is also a great thing. God does not want us ignoring our families so we can serve Him. We need to serve Him by raising our families in a righteous way.
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
And what happened to Fraud... I mean Freak, all the sudden?
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Calvinist.. please back off a bit and remember that he is a brother in Christ.
 
Calvinist

Calvinist

New member
Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren


Calvinist.. please back off a bit and remember that he is a brother in Christ.
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Yeah, I think you are right, but I am about to test that idea to the extreme....
 
ebenz47037

ebenz47037

Proverbs 31:10
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Originally posted by Freak


Hey, I'm calling Knight on the carpet. Put Jesus above all us including his kids.
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Tell you what. I've been trying to like you up til now because we do share a few beliefs. But, it doesn't matter if you think he's wrong for loving his children enough to deny Christ. I won't say he's wrong either. I look at it this way: God put it on his heart to take very good care of his children. He loves his children. He also loves God. He's made that clear in many ways that (if you look on TOL) you can see everywhere. We're not wrong for not wanting to deny Christ in that situation. Knight just happens to disagree with us on this. Remember that this board is a place for debate. You don't have to start name-calling.
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Calvinist... I don't agree with Freak in a lot of things.. but I would zealously defend that he is in fact a brother in Christ. When this is forgotten things cross the line and get genuinely ugly. I am trying to give you a gentle warning that you may be veering towards ugliness.
 
Calvinist

Calvinist

New member
Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren
Calvinist... I don't agree with Freak in a lot of things.. but I would zealously defend that he is in fact a brother in Christ. When this is forgotten things cross the line and get genuinely ugly. I am trying to give you a gentle warning that you may be veering towards ugliness.
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Gentle warning noted and taken. But don't you find it odd that the minute he was faced with the idea that "witnessing" was not an issue of correct morality in the faith, that he left for a while?

I could answer this off the top of my head.
 
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Freak

Freak

New member
Originally posted by Knight
I couldn't agree more!
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Awww....isn't that sweet, DD and Knighty agree, awwwwww...

Thats sickening.

Stop kissing up to one another and stand for some Biblical principles.

Jesus was rather clear on what we should place on top of our most important list-

25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

Jesus, is not as some would like to imply, that we actually hate our family. That is absurd. Jesus is essentially saying we need to place Him above all else. If we were ever in a situation that required us sacrificing our family then we need to do just that.

Jesus goes on:

"Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'
31"Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.
34"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

I think His teaching is rather clear. We need to give up everything (that includes family as in the context of this chapter) be His follower.
 
Y

Yxboom

Guest
Originally posted by Freak


Awww....isn't that sweet, DD and Knighty agree, awwwwww...

Thats sickening.

Stop kissing up to one another and stand for some Biblical principles.
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Hows about stop being a hypocrite and stop kissing up to c. moore and defend Biblical principles. Christians are not little gods Freak you should tell c. moore this.
 
D

Dee Dee Warren

Guest
Awww....isn't that sweet, DD and Knighty agree, awwwwww...

Thats sickening.

Stop kissing up to one another and stand for some Biblical principles.
Click to expand...

I repent of my defense of you. Have at him Calvinist!!!
 
Freak

Freak

New member
Originally posted by Calvinist


Gentle warning noted and taken. But don't you find it odd that the minute he was faced with the idea that "witnessing" was not an issue of correct morality in the faith, that he left for a while?

I could answer this off the top of my head.
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You tell me if Jesus commanded us to share the Gospel in Luke 24?
 
Calvinist

Calvinist

New member
Originally posted by Freak


Awww....isn't that sweet, DD and Knighty agree, awwwwww...

Thats sickening.

Stop kissing up to one another and stand for some Biblical principles.

Jesus was rather clear on what we should place on top of our most important list-

25Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26"If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple. 27And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.

Jesus, is not as some would like to imply, that we actually hate our family. That is absurd. Jesus is essentially saying we need to place Him above all else. If we were ever in a situation that required us sacrificing our family then we need to do just that.

Jesus goes on:

"Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Will he not first sit down and estimate the cost to see if he has enough money to complete it? 29For if he lays the foundation and is not able to finish it, everyone who sees it will ridicule him, 30saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'
31"Or suppose a king is about to go to war against another king. Will he not first sit down and consider whether he is able with ten thousand men to oppose the one coming against him with twenty thousand? 32If he is not able, he will send a delegation while the other is still a long way off and will ask for terms of peace. 33In the same way, any of you who does not give up everything he has cannot be my disciple.
34"Salt is good, but if it loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? 35It is fit neither for the soil nor for the manure pile; it is thrown out.
"He who has ears to hear, let him hear."

I think His teaching is rather clear. We need to give up everything (that includes family as in the context of this chapter) be His follower.
Click to expand...

This does not answer my challenge. You say it is morally wrong not to witness by not denying Christ to a lunitic. I saw that the Bible does not teach that it is morally wrong to not witness. I don't believe that Bible teaches us to witness at all.

Prove that the bible teaches that we should witness at all.

Prove that the Great Commandment is lower than the idea of witnessing for Christ.
 
Freak

Freak

New member
Originally posted by Calvinist


This does not answer my challenge. You say it is morally wrong not to witness by not denying Christ to a lunitic. I saw that the Bible does not teach that it is morally wrong to not witness. I don't believe that Bible teaches us to witness at all.

Prove that the bible teaches that we should witness at all.

Prove that the Great Commandment is lower than the idea of witnessing for Christ.
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Huh?

Your dumb also. You know what's going to to drive you crazy? I'm going to ignore all of your posts on this thread. I'm not going to respond to any of your nonsense. It's going to drive you crazy....
 
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