ARCHIVE: God's mass-murder in the flood

[Aimiel]

Originally posted by smothers
Why are obvious questions such the existance of evil, God's childish and cruel temper tantrum and flood placed in the category of "mystery"?

Simple: we don't understand why the heck they became necessary. I would have thought that an all-powerful being could have put things together in such a way that 'starting over' would not be necessary. He found doing so appropriate, and when we are with Him, we will be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is; and at that point we will be able to understand His Reasoning. Until then, we can only see Him as if through a glass, 'darkly.'

Why is the Bible, which obviously borrows its contents from other sources, taken at face value.

Because it is not only true, but God has claimed that it is and proven so.

Even in the light of contradictions, scientific inaccuracies, barbaric murder of entire cities by God's chosen wandering nomads, the whole fairy tale is taken seriously.

The Bible does not contradict Itself, there are no scientific errors in it (perhaps mis-interpretations or language / understanding differences), and is not a 'fairy tale.'

I just don't get it.

As I have said before, this is obvious. You consider The Gospel to be foolishness, and have no light; so you can't help but mis-understand. Your attitude is preventing you from coming to God for forgiveness and eternal life. Such a great thing being missed (eternity) for such a small thing (pride). What a shame.

Trusting a diety who refuses to show himself in ANY objective manner is simply wishful thinking.

When He did so, the Egyptians did not believe in Him. The Israelites wandered around in the wilderness for forty years, with a pillar of cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night and did not believe Him; they all had to die, and were not allowed to enter the Promised Land because of their un-belief. Though one rose from the dead to testify that hell is real and to show the way to repentance and eternal life, still people are marching into hell. It seems impossible, but it is happening every day. Has been for quite some time now.

I urge everyone to seriously think and examine their spiritual beliefs in the light of reason. Don't be afraid of stepping out of your comfort zone. Most here seem rather intellegent, but refuse to directly face the obvious reality that Christianity is patently false.

I would urge you to seriously examine yours, for if you are right, we have lost nothing. If we are right, you have lost your soul. For ETERNITY!!! You seem rather intelligent, but if you have said, in your heart, "There is no God," then you are a fool. The reality of God and His Word is obvious, but first, you have to believe in Him. If you don't believe in Him, you can never receive anything from Him:

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Everyone has been given faith:

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

But, by making use of the faith that is in you, believing that God exists, studying His Word, and reaching conclusions about God, you can actually come into a relationship with Him, confess your sins, and He will be able to give you eternal life.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by Zakath
Of course there's always the avatar Knight purposely christened (now there's a religiously fraught word!) with my screen-name. :chuckle:

Oh I get it now..... taoist meant "smilies" (or emoticons) when said "avatars" right?

That was funny.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by smothers
I have noticed that the Christians on this board attempt ridicule on those that oppose their world-view.

I have noticed that you do, too, even though you say it's inappropriate.

 

[smothers]

Quote:

The Bible does not contradict Itself, there are no scientific errors in it (perhaps mis-interpretations or language / understanding differences), and is not a 'fairy tale.'

----

You're kidding right? There are NO errors? No instances in which the Bible claims rabbits eat their kud, no instances in which insects are said to have four legs (not six)? There are no contradictions in the resurection story between the gospel? The bible doesn't display PI has 3? The bible doesn't say man origionated from the middle east when clear and indisputable archaeological evidence shows man started in Africa?

I would classify the six day creation story and the fall of man as clear fairy-tales. Most people view noah building a boat then placing animals in it as a nice story; but not one to be taken literally. What else could you call it when a woman talks to a snake, eats an apple then gets expelled from a garden?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by smothers
You're kidding right? There are NO errors? No instances in which the Bible claims rabbits eat their kud, no instances in which insects are said to have four legs (not six)? There are no contradictions in the resurection story between the gospel? The bible doesn't display PI has 3? The bible doesn't say man origionated from the middle east when clear and indisputable archaeological evidence shows man started in Africa?

I would classify the six day creation story and the fall of man as clear fairy-tales. Most people view noah building a boat then placing animals in it as a nice story; but not one to be taken literally. What else could you call it when a woman talks to a snake, eats an apple then gets expelled from a garden?

smothers with all due respect....

You are a classic moron. (and unlike you... I find it very appropriate to call you names).

I mean seriously.... try to think a little on your own. Don't be so sure that your "Bible bashing" sources are at all accurate.

You are the classic troll :troll: ... attempting to raise eyebrows and not having any intention of pondering the real issues at hand.

 

[smothers]

I think we are done here. You are so close-minded and set in your ways that you will likely never grow as a person. If you want to take the mythology seriously, go right a head. If you want to keep your blinders on and take the Bible at face value, please continue to live in your little fantasy-land.
It is no wonder that Christianity is loosing ground all over the world. Fundamentalist non-thinkers like yourself are giving it a bad name. Viewing the world through your God-tinted glasses is a tragic way to live your life. If you continue to live in the philosophical ghetto called fundamentalist Christianity you will find that only like-minded people will ever take you seriously. From the tone of your posts, I can tell no one else does.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by smothers
I think we are done here. You are so close-minded and set in your ways that you will likely never grow as a person. If you want to take the mythology seriously, go right a head. If you want to keep your blinders on and take the Bible at face value, please continue to live in your little fantasy-land.

You may be done here... but the rest of us are having an interesting intelligent discussion.

You continue...

It is no wonder that Christianity is loosing ground all over the world. Fundamentalist non-thinkers like yourself are giving it a bad name. Viewing the world through your God-tinted glasses is a tragic way to live your life. If you continue to live in the philosophical ghetto called fundamentalist Christianity you will find that only like-minded people will ever take you seriously. From the tone of your posts, I can tell no one else does.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. - Billy Madison's principal.

 

[taoist]

Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.
Smilies, not avatars.

:doh:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

:up:

 

[smothers]

Why would I want you to award me points? What makes you think I take your opinion seriously? Which God should take mercy on my soul?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

toaist.... Actually I should have figured that out. Especially after I re-read your post. :doh:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by smothers
Why would I want you to award me points? What makes you think I take your opinion seriously? Which God should take mercy on my soul?

What was that song.....?

You know that song from the 80's....?

How did it go?

Let me think...

"You're such a dork at the party...."

Yea.... that's how it went.

 

[smothers]

Quote:

You're such a dork at the party...."

-----

Wow,he just gets creepier and creepier.., I hope he doesn't behave like that at in his Freshman math class.

 

[taoist]

As a point of fact, smothers, though I agree insofar as you think Knight has a restricted world view, you're entirely wrong in assuming he doesn't think deeply about it. While I believe he's drastically wrong in a lot of his basic assumptions, his posts are almost always serious when he's dealing with a serious opponent.

Sure, he's kinder with the christians. He's a christian! It's a christian board! It's HIS christian board! And he still gives free bandwidth to freeloaders like myself and a few other atheists around here. If you're looking to engage someone of your own mindset, you picked a pisspoor way to show it. Everyone here saw you were pontificating around about your third post. Seeing as I'm an atheist, I gave you more slack than he did.

But you're still a troll. And troll-baiting isn't just a spectator sport around here. You were never looking for a serious discussion with him, and surprise, surprise, you didn't find one.

I've got an account over at internet infidels too and a bunch of other boards. I post here when I want to talk with christians. Or I wouldn't post here at all.

 

[smothers]

I take exception at your claim that I never was looking for a serious discussion. I am more than happy to deal honestly and deeply with philosophical and theological issues. You have been on this board longer than I have so I'll defer to your characterization of Knight. From my limited engangement with him, I can tell he would rather cut his right arm off than concede a point.
My origonal hypothesis that the God of the Bible (if taken literally) has committed far more atrocities than abortionists still stands. It was NEVER met with any serious consideration. "You are just a mornon." is not a response. After answering his question considering God's omnipotence, he did not continue with the issue, he simply resorted to name-calling, and spell-checking. I sincerly hope that his demeanor outside of TOL is more mature than in it.
I'm willing to entertain Knight's line of reasoning, if he is.

 

[taoist]

If you're expecting him to sit down with you in your freshman math class, it's not gonna happen. It'd be speaking greek to a swahili bushman.

(Besides, you really need to work on cleaning up your math exegesis, dude. Infinity - a number? Don't you have a younger cousin or something to polish that up on first? I can read past your mistakes there cause I've had thousands of students, but it's just not reasonable to expect that kind of leeway with the general public, even the college educated.)

In point of fact, I've raised exactly the same kind of issue here on this board, with a poster called LucyBelle, and got a truly sincere and thoughtful answer, despite the fact I didn't think she had it in her. It's all in the presentation. I still think she's wrong, but it was really enlightening to see the way she thinks. Honestly, that's the best you can expect when you wander in somebody else's neighborhood. They live here. You don't.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by smothers
My origonal hypothesis that the God of the Bible (if taken literally) has committed far more atrocities than abortionists still stands. It was NEVER met with any serious consideration.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I first asked you to make a clarification (post #3) and then gave you a straight answer to your question (post #9).

But you ignored my answer, and others', becoming fixated on the evils of name-calling.

Knight and I have pointed out that name-calling is sometimes appropriate according to our standard of righteousness (God), and that Christ called some people names (particularly those who asked him questions dishonestly). We are Christians, after all, so why wouldn't we follow the example of Christ, and the apostles, and the prophets?

What is your standard or righteousness and justice? On what basis do you conclude that namecalling is always wrong, or that murderers must be put to death? I suspect that your standard is "what seems right to smothers." Whatever it is, you fall short even of your own standard, since you have repeatedly called Knight names.

 

[smothers]

That is a good point. It is rather fruitless to point out fallacies of Christianity to a Christian. My initial reason for raising points like these is to see how strong/weak the apologetics are.
Still, the argument of non-existance of God from evil IS NOT new, neither is Biblical criticism. I was looking forward to seeing the defence of the faith was. It is disappointing that all I got was the "trust in God" and "you are a moron." response. I was really interested in seeing where Knight was going with his infinity/omnipotence line of reasoning; but I guess we'll never know.

 

[smothers]

Quote:

What is your standard or righteousness and justice? On what basis do you conclude that namecalling is always wrong, or that murderers must be put to death?

My standard of righteousness and justice lies in what aids in the preservation of life.

I do not hold the position that namecalling is ALWAYS wrong.

I conclude that murderres must be put to death, because a swift death penalty leads to LESS people dying.

 

[smothers]

Answer to post #3

By worst I mean more wicked.