ARCHIVE: Fool is only fooling himself

allsmiles

allsmiles

New member
Lucky said:
But then they can't use their beloved "Christians argue amongst themselves, we atheists don't, so our worldview is superior" argument. :skeptic:

(I'm not sure if allsmiles or fool have ever used that kind of argument, but I know it has been made on TOL.)
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1st, i'm not an atheist, 2nd you're correct, you'll never catch me using such an inane argument.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Balder said:
This discussion is really classic. Knight apparently has a limited understanding of moral relativism and doesn't realize he and Bob are espousing a form of it.

The idea that it is "okay" to purposefully cut down civilians (infants, children, women, elders) in their homes and villages "because it's wartime" is reprehensible to me. I can't believe it's seriously being defended. But of course, it has to be defended, because it is recorded with approval in the Bible and therefore -- according to the narrow interpretive lens some people unfortunately believe is necessary -- it must be okay and morally justifiable.

If these Christians believe it's a crime to kill children, except when it's war time (and then it's okay to cut them up with swords), then they seriously undermine their own moral standing when they condemn those who support another conditional argument that it is sometimes okay to kill children -- in the form of abortion. The chants of "baby killers" are coming back to haunt this lot!
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Yes... or No...

Was the USA guilty of murdering children when they dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
 
allsmiles

allsmiles

New member
Knight said:
Yes... or No...

Was the USA guilty of murdering children when they dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
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Yes or No,

Sun Tzu could have captured Jericho without slaughtering any infants and without the help of your god.

i'm curious, i don't have the story open in front of me, did the slaughter of the defenseless happen before, or after the city had been taken? or was a condition of victory that the defenseless non-combatants be slaughtered? was the enemy army vanquished at that point?
 
Granite

Granite

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I don't see why Knight would expect a moral relativist NOT to agree with fool on some issues.

And a Christian, of all people, should clean his own house and get along with his own brethern before telling anybody whose company they should keep.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
allsmiles said:
i'm curious, i don't have the story open in front of me, did the slaughter of the defenseless happen before, or after the city had been taken? or was a condition of victory that the defenseless non-combatants be slaughtered? was the enemy army vanquished at that point?
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Apparently it was necessary.

allsmiles... you don't believe in absolute morality so clearly you cannot argue against God's (or Joshua's for that matter) judgement can you?

Ouch! :eek:
 
allsmiles

allsmiles

New member
Knight said:
Apparently it was necessary.
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like i said, i don't have the story open in front of me, could you give me a reader's digest version of why it was necessary?

allsmiles... you don't believe in absolute morality so clearly you cannot argue against God's (or Joshua's for that matter) judgement can you?
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no but i can argue against the barbarism of the people who wrote the myth.

and so can Sun Tzu.

do you have anything to say about Sun Tzu?

Ouch! :eek:
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you can say that again.
 
Granite

Granite

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Knight said:
Apparently it was necessary.

allsmiles... you don't believe in absolute morality so clearly you cannot argue against God's (or Joshua's for that matter) judgement can you?

Ouch! :eek:
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Neither do you guys.

Ethics and morality change in scripture just as they (still) do now.

We are all relativists whether you acknowledge that or not.
 
Balder

Balder

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Knight said:
Yikes! :shocked:
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What's the difference between a suicide bomber walking into a heavily populated area and blowing himself up along with lots of civilians, including the children he sees there, and purposefully dropping massive bombs on highly populated urban areas, blowing up civilians including the children you know are there?
 
Balder

Balder

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Granite said:
Neither do you guys.

Ethics and morality change in scripture just as they (still) do now.

We are all relativists whether you acknowledge that or not.
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The problem with postmodern relativism, in my view, is not relativism itself, but the idea that such relativism is only horizontal. I think absolutist camps and postmodern relativist camps are in roughly the same boat: both arguing for a rather flat view of morality, not acknowledging the spectrum of moral growth that is not only possible, but inevitable (at least to a degree) for everyone.
 
fool

fool

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
Knight said:
And to sum things up regarding the great fool debacle.....

".... this house is clean."
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Far from it.
Although I'm flattered you regaurd it as a debacle for your position.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Balder said:
What's the difference between a suicide bomber walking into a heavily populated area and blowing himself up along with lots of civilians, including the children he sees there, and purposefully dropping massive bombs on highly populated urban areas, blowing up civilians including the children you know are there?
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What's the difference between murder and killing?
 
K

koban

New member
Lucky said:
What's relative to the circumstances is whether the killing is murder or just killing. Murder is absolutely wrong. Killing is not. What the Israelites did was not murder.
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Why?

Would it have been "murder" if Joshua had not told them that God had ordered it?
 
K

koban

New member
Knight said:
"NONE OF YOU WUSSIES WOULD BEHEAD IT NO MATTER WHO TOLD YOU TO DO IT."

I can only put up with so much stupid. You are free to disagree. :)

I am of course much less flexible after 100 (or so) similar episodes.
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Knight - if you were told by a prophet (not directly by God) to slay infants with a sword, what would your reaction be?

Today, not in the biblical past.

If you were told by a prophet that God has commanded you to chop up infants in Denver, what would you do?
 
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