Berean Todd said:
Yes I do mean at a governmental level. I don't think that the Bible really clearly supports ANY economic system or setup in my opinion. To try and make it is to stretch and twist the text, but there are guidelines. I'm not advocating paying for women who want to never work and churn out kids 12 at a time to eat up more welfare.
If you can work, you should work, that is Biblical. But I do support things like national health care, helps for the poor, increased minimum wage, etc. Yes, I do think that such things are with Biblical principles, and would classify myself therefore as a socialist.
But earlier you said,
I am not a theonomist, the government and religion do NOT mix, they never have. We have no right to legislate this into other's lives.
Doesn't your proposal for governments to emulate Peter's church and to enforce these "Biblical principles" fly in the face of what you've said here?
You said that you base your socialism on the model set by the early church. Do you own a home? Have you sold all of your possessions and turned the proceeds over to your church's leaders for redistribution?
Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. Acts 2:44-45
Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need. Acts 4:34-35
Believers under Peter and the twelve sold everything they had, particularly their land and houses, and let the apostles distrubute the resources to them as needed. Everyone surrendered their resources to the apostles, and relied then relied upon the apostles to meet their needs (which would include feeding their children).
But compare that system to what Paul wrote concerning the church's role in financially supporting widows:
Honor widows who are really widows. But if any widow has children or grandchildren, let them first learn to show piety at home and to repay their parents; for this is good and acceptable before God. Now she who is really a widow, and left alone, trusts in God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day. But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives. And these things command, that they may be blameless. But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number, and not unless she has been the wife of one man, well reported for good works: if she has brought up children, if she has lodged strangers, if she has washed the saints' feet, if she has relieved the afflicted, if she has diligently followed every good work.
But refuse the younger widows; for when they have begun to grow wanton against Christ, they desire to marry, having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith. And besides they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house, and not only idle but also gossips and busybodies, saying things which they ought not. Therefore I desire that the younger widows marry, bear children, manage the house, give no opportunity to the adversary to speak reproachfully. For some have already turned aside after Satan. If any believing man or woman has widows, let them relieve them, and do not let the church be burdened, that it may relieve those who are really widows. 1 Timothy 5:3-15
Paul didn't push the communal system that Peter and the twelve used. The Church was only to support widows if they had no family to care for them, and were not young enough to re-marry. Obviously not everyone was surrendering their property and possessions to the church, or a widow's children would have no means to support her. In fact, the Church would support not only every widow in the congregation, but also every other member as well.
Do you agree that Paul did not teach his converts to live socialistically as Peter did?
I hope you will be willing to discuss these issues here.
