ARCHIVE - An honest question....

[notto]

Palette of Narmer

This Egyptian find is strikingly similar to the Mesopotamian Seal (yet definately not reptillian).

Hmmm . . .

 

[Nathon Detroit]

notto writes...

But we can find the types of animal bones in and around the area people lived if they hunted, wrestled, and saw them. Dinosaur bones are not found in the same burial condition, location, or weathered condition as the animals these people hunted, cohabitated with, and saw on a day to day basis.

I understand that, but many (if not most) of the animal bone types of the world are not found with ancient civilizations therefore your argument isn't a very persuasive one. The fact that we do not find certain bone's with human settlements does not indicate in the least that those missing animals were not in existence at the same time of the human settlement.

Furthermore...
I don't think anyone has suggested that people saw dinosaurs on a daily basis. How many hippopotamus have you seen today?

You write...

Except in the rare case of finding transitional finds

"transitional finds"??? Please support that claim.

You continue...

Please give one example if you can of mammal, human, and dinosaur bones that have been found in the same condition, same location, and same preservation state. Bet you can't.

Nor can you make that claim for 50% (or more) of the animals that we know to exist!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by notto
Palette of Narmer

This Egyptian find is strikingly similar to the Mesopotamian Seal (yet definately not reptillian).

Hmmm . . .

So in your opinion.... what are the animals on your Egyptian find? The Egyptians sure knew how to draw on OX semi accurately so what were they drawing above the OX?

 

[notto]

Knight,

I only asked for one example of dinosaur bones and mammal bones being found in the same condition at the same spot. I can certainly give you examples of many mammals that are found together (along with birds as well-tar pits for example). If dinosaurs and ANY mammal coexsted, we should able to find them together.

When I speak of transitional finds, these are not transitional fossils. The type of find that I am talking about covers large spans of time and shows:
Dinosaurs at the bottom
Dinosaurs with small mammals next
Dinosaurs, small mammals, and primative birds next
Birds, small mammals, and large mammals next
Birds, small mammals (including hominids) next.
US at the top!

Can you find an example of the above where any layer contains dinosaurs, small mammals, large mammals and hominids)

NOPE!

Do you agree that if dinosaurs existed with humans that they existed with mammals. Don't you think we should be able to find at least ONE example of their remains being found in the same location at the same time along with large mammals that are known to have existed or currently exist in the area (or that they most likely ATE)?

I'm pretty sure that the egytian animals are MADE UP. That was kind of the point. They are similar to the Mesoppotamian made up animals which is not suprising because those cultures had a lot in common (and a common history).

In discussions like this is is often easy to discuss "dinosaurs" but if we are going to discuss supposed pictures of dinosaurs, then we need to look for pictures of specific species of dinosaurs and see if we can find fossils that match the pictures.

In the acambaro finds there are figurines that show man like creatures wrestling with "dinosaurs", being eaten by "dinosaurs" and petting "dinosaurs". Do we have examples dinosaurs that match this scale and look like the ones in the figurines (man can't wrestle a full scale stegasaurs).

Also, in the Seal picture of what you said looked like a
Brontosaurus. The seal also has birdlike creatures on it that must be HUGE if this is the case. Have we found any large birds with feathers as in the picture (that could actually fly?) that would match the scale in the seal?

Is the bird figure made up but the large animal not made up?

If man hunted "dinosaurs" and killed them or used them in the same way as other animals in their vecinity, why can't we find a single example of a trophy, furniture, tool, clothes, or religeous symbol made out of their remains? This is common for other animals people hunt and eat such as birds, lions, tigers, elephants, bears, cows, crocodiles, etc.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

notto says...

I only asked for one example of dinosaur bones and mammal bones being found in the same condition at the same spot. I can certainly give you examples of many mammals that are found together (along with birds as well-tar pits for example). If dinosaurs and ANY mammal coexsted, we should able to find them together.

Hmmm.... you are hopelessly missing the point. MANY types (if not most) of animal bones are NOT found with human settlement remains yet that doesn't prove or even give reliable evidence that they didn't co-exist.

Oh well... no biggy I am not here to convince you of anything on this thread, I just find the topic interesting.

 

[notto]

Originally posted by Knight
notto says...Hmmm.... you are hopelessly missing the point. MANY types (if not most) of animal bones are NOT found with human settlement remains yet that doesn't prove or even give reliable evidence that they didn't co-exist.

Oh well... no biggy I am not here to convince you of anything on this thread, I just find the topic interesting.

Speaking of missing the point (or avoiding it)
I said MAMMAL bones, not human settlement.

You can't give me one example of any MAMMAL bones and dinosaur bones found in the same geographic area, buried at the same level (time), and in the same state of fossilization. Is this a correct statement or not?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Why do you think mammals and dinosaurs didn't co-exist?

Even the secular world believes that mammals and dinosaurs came into existence in Triassic Period 248 - 206 million years ago.

 

[notto]

Originally posted by Knight
Why do you think mammals and dinosaurs didn't co-exist?

Even the secular world believes that mammals and dinosaurs came into existence in Triassic Period 248 - 206 million years ago.

Obviously I'm talking in the general sense. I also explained the transitional period between large dinosaurs, small mammals, and large mammals, and hominids in an earlier post.

Large mammals did not coexist with Large Dinosaurs.

Mammals did not coexist with Dinosaurs for long

Modern Man did not coexist with early mammals.

Modern Man did not coexist with Dinosaurs.

These statments are very broad and yes there are times in geologic history when this may not have been true (except for that last one).

My "beliefs" and what I have represented here are in no way conflicting with what the "secular" world believes (by the way, I think you meant to say "mainstream, peer reviewed science").

Lets put it this way.

I can find huge numbers of species of mammals buried with each other, in the same area, in the same condition.

I can find huge numbers of species of dinosaurs buried wiith each other in the same area, in the same condition, at the same time.

I cannot find a mixture of a huge number of species of dinosaurs and mammals buried in the same area, in the same condition.

Let this be my final comment on the subject. Unless we can find other physical evidence through bones, tools, burial, remains, diet, there is no physical proof that man and dinosaur ever coexisted.

The fact that a few of the thousands of images of gods, demons, mythology, exagerated stories, and fairy tales may resemble what we commonly consider to be a generic "dinosaur" does not change this lack of physical evidence so I choose to assert at this point that this is not evidence of the coexistence.

I have the weight of every piece of physical evidence that has ever been tested, examined, and verified on my side of this assertion. Still waiting for any evidence that would make me even consider that the images in those crude, subjective pictures and figurines are anywhere close to being an accurate, eyewitness, rendition of a dinosaur.

I am willing to be pursuaded based on additional evidence if it is ever presented. I will be waiting (along with the rest of the "secular" world).

 

[Nathon Detroit]

notto says...

Mammals did not coexist with Dinosaurs for long

Huh? Are you sure about that??? Mammals and dinosaurs both appear in secular accounts around 220 million years ago.

 

[notto]

Originally posted by Knight
notto says...Huh? Are you sure about that??? Mammals and dinosaurs both appear in secular accounts around 220 million years ago.

Again, instead of "secular" I think you mean "mainstream, peer reviewed, accepted by 99% of professionals in the field"

They maybe lived together for around 100 million years (far from recent, far from the maximum reign of either mammals or dinosaurs, this is the "transitional" period).

No mammal species that we would recognize as living today lived with dinosaurs.

No humans lived with dinosaurs.

Still can't show even one example of recently buried dinosaur bones with the thousands of recently buried animal and human bones?

You are still giving me no reason to think that crude, subjective, pictures of gods, fairies, dragons, demons, nymphs, unicorns, hydras, flying horses, or sea monsters should be taken as accurate, eye witness renditions of what we commonly consider dinosaurs.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

notto... says...

You are still giving me no reason to think that crude, subjective, pictures of gods, fairies, dragons, demons, nymphs, unicorns, hydras, flying horses, or sea monsters should be taken as accurate, eye witness renditions of what we commonly consider dinosaurs.

Again... I am not trying to convince you of anything.

I find the topic interesting, apparently you do not and that's OK.

 

[Lion]

But there are...

But there are...

Notto-I don’t agree with your statement. In the first place when skeleton’s or fossils of ancient man (you and I would disagree on what ancient means) are found in places that biased evolutionists feel is not possible for them to be, they dismiss it out of hand or hide their findings altogether.So it is not possible to know how many human skeletons or artifacts have been found with dinosaur fossils.

Bones of many modern-looking humans have been found deep in undisturbed rocks that, according to evolution, were formed long before man began to evolve. Examples include the Calaveras Skull, the Castenedolo skeletons, Reck’s skeleton, and many others. Other remains such as the Swanscombe skull, the Steinheim fossil, and the Vertesszollos fossil, present similar problems. And besides these there have been human footprints found in rock formations in Utah, Kentucky, Missouri, Pennsylvania and Russia, dating back (supposedly) 150-600 million years. There have been human artifacts found incased in coal. Examples include a thimble, an iron pot, an 8-karat gold chain, three throwing spears, as well as others. There have been objects such as nails, a screw, a strange coin, a tiny ceramic doll, all found deeply buried in rocks supposedly hundreds of millions of years old. But evolutionists just ignore these findings, or claim they are nothing more than the results of disturbed burials.

However this being said, I don’t think this is what this thread is even supposed to be about. Knight is trying to see what we think of these pictures and how they came to be.

You have stated:

The examples you give show men killing dinosaurs, men riding dinosaurs, men LIVING WITH dinosaurs…

So even you seem to agree they look like dinosaurs. So I think he has made his point.

Do any of the statues or drawings look like…say…a Boeing 747? How about just a jet period? If not… then why dinosaurs?

 

[muldoon]

Knight and Lion thanks for the interesting comments....

I really think this Roman mosaic is very interesting and it hardly looks like a Lion as somebody suggested.

click here to view image

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Lion, giraffe, dinosaur.... what's the difference???