ARCHIVE - An honest question....

M

muldoon

New member
Take a look at the following image...

click here to view image

It is a Roman mosaic created in the first century.

Modern man did not discover dinosaur fosils until the 1800's.

What would compel the 1st century artist to create such an image?
 
N

notto

New member
The same thing that would compel 3rd century artists to draw griffins.

http://www.strangescience.net/pics/griffin.jpg

Year: c. 310
In the seventh century B.C., ancient Greeks made contact with Saka-Scythian nomads who prospected for gold in the Gobi Desert. One of the legends that the Greeks gleaned from this contact was of the griffin, a lion-sized, four-legged, winged animal with a "cruel sharp beak" that ferociously guarded its hoard of gold. (A more cautious account suggested that griffins didn't guard gold but simply lived near it, and carefully protected their young from all intruders.) This Roman mosaic shows a griffin drawn to a trap whose unfortunate bait is a man. Where did this legend come from? Twentieth-century excavations in the Gobi have unearthed Protoceratops and Psittacosaurus skeletons, both beaked dinosaurs, from the same regions where the nomads prospected. It's quite possible that gold seekers found these fossils eroding out of the desert sands and, making astute observations about their skeletal structures, speculated on the appearance of the live animal.

http://www.strangescience.net/stdino2.htm
 
KurtPh

KurtPh

New member
From what I understand, most fantastic creatures in Old World mythology are based on fossils of some sort, some of which were still basically intact due to the way they were preserved. I know that some apothacaries in Beijing (then Peking) sold Homo erectus remains, in addition to rhino and other large mammals, as dragon bones which were cruched and put drunk as some sort of medicine. Also, when some creatures were described which do exist, such as Giant Pandas, gorrilas, and other such creatures, their proportions were often exagerated and artistic renditions created by those who had never seen the creature he was depicting often looked nothin like the way it really appears.
 
J

juliod

New member
The problem with this topic is that it is even more dubious than modern cryptozoology. We can't be sure of what the original artist may have had in mind. They may have simply did a bad job of a natural animal that they weren't very familiar with.

DanZ
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
juliod said:
The problem with this topic is that it is even more dubious than modern cryptozoology. We can't be sure of what the original artist may have had in mind. They may have simply did a bad job of a natural animal that they weren't very familiar with.

DanZ
Click to expand...
OK, fair enough, but you must admit that many of these ancient drawings and sculptures have the uncanny resemblance to dinosaurs. Wouldn't you at least agree with that statement?
 
M

MrReality

BANNED
Banned
I don't know if the above picture was some sort of a joke or meant to be taken seriously but this is quite obviously not 16th century Peruvian art. The detail in drawing the toe nails of the dinosaur is the first obvious hint and the cartoonish belly and the lines extending up past the belly for the legs demonstrate this to be much more contemporary. It looks more like the artist was copying something from the flintstones than from real life.

I'd be interested in knowing where this piece came from.
 
B

bob b

Science Lover
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Kurt,

>>From what I understand, most fantastic creatures in Old World mythology are based on fossils of some sort<<

Sounds like someone's fantasy to me. ;)

Is there any evidence to support such a theory?
 
M

MrReality

BANNED
Banned
The image on the top left looks disctinctly like a fire hydrant turned over sideways with a dog's head coming out of it. I suppose this is proof that dogs urinated on fire hydrants in 3000 BCE.
 
KurtPh

KurtPh

New member
bob b said:
Kurt,

>>From what I understand, most fantastic creatures in Old World mythology are based on fossils of some sort<<

Sounds like someone's fantasy to me. ;)

Is there any evidence to support such a theory?
Click to expand...

Did you read the rest of my response?
 
KurtPh

KurtPh

New member
Knight

The first picture you posted appears to me to be fraudulent. Still, I'm curious to know where you got it, as I'd be interested in tracing its origins down.

The second image looks clearly like a Mesopotamian cylinder seal, but I did notice one little detail...

The creatures depicted had hooves and to my knowledge dinosaurs did not have hooves.

I'm inclined to think that the two creatures on the cylinder seal were giraffs. Lions, for example, used to be found all over Asia Minor up until the time the population was wiped out by the Romans who needed to continually fill the coloseums with wild and dangerous animals (there is still a remenent population in India, but it likely won't last another 25 years). Other large animals were also found there, such as rhinos. Now, I'm not certain if giraff's range extended into Asia Minor, but the Mesopotamians would still have known of their existence through their trade with the Egyptians.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Kurt you write…
The first picture you posted appears to me to be fraudulent. Still, I'm curious to know where you got it, as I'd be interested in tracing its origins down.
Click to expand...
It could be a hoax, I suppose.

It is from the ICA Stones collection. Have you ever heard of that collection? I have read some about these stones found by a Dr. Cabrera. Some of the story sounds pretty fishy. Although, I will say if it is a hoax, it took some incredible work as I believe there were 16,000 stones found many with images of dinosaur looking creatures.

You continue…
I'm inclined to think that the two creatures on the cylinder seal were giraffs.
Click to expand...
I really do not know what the images are on the cylinder but they sure do NOT look like giraffes to me! I have never seen a giraffe with a tail that long, with a fat body and with short muscular legs.

Kurt, what do you make of the many ancient images of dragons?

And what did you think of the Roman mosaic mentioned earlier? (in the first post) Juliod said it looked like a Lion, do you think it looks like a Lion?
 
KurtPh

KurtPh

New member
Really quickly, regarding the ICA Stones, here's a link that I found which discusses 'em. No, I hadn't heard of them before.

http://www.dcn.davis.ca.us/go/btcarrol/skeptic/icastones.html

As for the possibility of those creatures being giraffs, I would have to say that it is a possibility. Take a look at modern art. Does it always faithfully reproduce images of its model?

When it comes to dragons, I think you'll find that many cultures dipict their dragons in very different ways. Still, I think that some at least are the result of fossils. I gave an earlier example of a case when ancient fossils were slod in China as dragon bones.

Finally, no, I don't think it looks like a lion. Muldoon said the caption was that of a Crocodile-Leopard. Perhaps this image might have been influenced by Egyptian art, which combined different creatures, including humans. Many of the gods had human bodies and animal heads. Come to think of it, I think that one of the myths found in 'The Book of the Dead" says that the souls of the unworthy were devoured by an animal such as the one provided by Muldoon. Might be the same creature.
 
Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

LIFETIME MEMBER
LIFETIME MEMBER
Kurt this is one of those frustrating conversations.

What would be the harm in admitting that the images on the cylinder look remarkably like dinosaurs?

Its not like the admission would prove young earth creationism or anything.

Several animals thought to have been extinct have been found very much alive. Isn’t it possible that certain creatures that are now extinct were still alive in the recent past?

It wasn’t that long ago I was an atheist myself debating Christians but I cannot imagine being so far gone into my position that I couldn’t have said "wow, that is weird, it does look an awful lot like some sort of dinosaur".
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top