ECT Another indication the end of time was near

[Interplanner]

Recent discussion of I Cor 7 reminded me that yet again, there was a very strong apostolic belief that the end of the world was coming right up. Paul wishes to spare believers from grief (not marital conflict, but the grief of loss) because of the difficulties ahead in their lifetime.

I mention this because the DofJ was expected right before the end of the world in the synoptics; so quickly and certain was Paul in Luke 21 that nothing is mentioned of the delay doctrine.

In historical theology, it is almost the first question Lattourrette discusses about the ending of the apostle's generation, Vol 1, p43. Sheer historical fact forced the remaining ones to accept that there would be a delay.

 

[whitestone]

We should then adjust our watches that is,,if judgement began at the house of God 1Peter 4:17 KJV and the days were stopped for about an full day Joshua 10:12 KJV and then again time went back 10 degrees Isaiah 38:8 KJV and Matthew 24:22 KJV then where will we set our watch,,,where is the beginning of judgement?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Recent discussion of I Cor 7 reminded me that yet again, there was a very strong apostolic belief that the end of the world was coming right up.

Not the end of the world but instead the end of the age. The Lord Jesus' words at Matthew 24 were in answer to the disciples question found here:

"Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" (Mt. 24:3).​

Earlier the Lord Jesus spoke the parable of the "tares of the field" where He described what would occur at the "end of the age":

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Mt. 13:37-43).​

There was never a time in the first century when a world wide harvest happened. And there was never a time in the first century when the Lord returned to the earth and judged everyone:

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: 'See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him'" (Jude 14-15).​

 

[DAN P]

Recent discussion of I Cor 7 reminded me that yet again, there was a very strong apostolic belief that the end of the world was coming right up. Paul wishes to spare believers from grief (not marital conflict, but the grief of loss) because of the difficulties ahead in their lifetime.

Hi , and what verse in 1 Cor 7 are you talking about ??

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi , and what verse in 1 Cor 7 are you talking about ??

dan p

He is reading his PP70AD [Partial Preterist 1st Century end-time] notions into Paul's discussion in 1 Cor. 7 on marriage/relationship conflict issues.

Their whole school is like that - last minute, surface impressions, taken by them as "time to read their PP70AD notions" into the passage.

The way it works is; they don't really invest that much time in Scripture. Rather; in their endless books supposedly "about" Scripture.

Given that passages are mentioned in those books, they become familiar with the passages, not through time in Scripture, but through their endless time in their books.

There you have the resulting false sense of “knowing Scripture” their endless books results in.

Later, should someone quote a passage in debate with them that they are not really that familiar – outside of their endless books and because they do not really invest a great deal of time in Scripture itself – they go and look the passage up, attach their mess to its surface impression and you see fool posts like the above, well, Paul meant this, Jesus meant that, and so on...

There is our problem with these people – we forget we are not really dealing with a group who actually know “that which is noted in the Scripture of truth,” rather; that which is noted in the endless books of their tradition “about” what is noted in Scripture; taken by them as “knowing the Word.”

Until they honestly deal with this massive dishonesty of theirs, even pointing this out to them, let alone attempting to deal with them as if dealing with someone who actually knows the Scripture; will fall on deaf ears.

 

[Cross Reference]

Yes. We've been told that all the Jews were murdered in 70 AD, Jesus returned and then after that __ a great big, "I don't know", explained using many confusing words..

 

[DAN P]

He is reading his PP70AD [Partial Preterist 1st Century end-time] notions into Paul's discussion in 1 Cor. 7 on marriage/relationship conflict issues.

Their whole school is like that - last minute, surface impressions, taken by them as "time to read their PP70AD notions" into the passage.

The way it works is; they don't really invest that much time in Scripture. Rather; in their endless books supposedly "about" Scripture.

Given that passages are mentioned in those books, they become familiar with the passages, not through time in Scripture, but through their endless time in their books.

There you have the resulting false sense of “knowing Scripture” their endless books results in.

Later, should someone quote a passage in debate with them that they are not really that familiar – outside of their endless books and because they do not really invest a great deal of time in Scripture itself – they go and look the passage up, attach their mess to its surface impression and you see fool posts like the above, well, Paul meant this, Jesus meant that, and so on...

There is our problem with these people – we forget we are not really dealing with a group who actually know “that which is noted in the Scripture of truth,” rather; that which is noted in the endless books of their tradition “about” what is noted in Scripture; taken by them as “knowing the Word.”

Until they honestly deal with this massive dishonesty of theirs, even pointing this out to them, let alone attempting to deal with them as if dealing with someone who actually knows the Scripture; will fall on deaf ears.

Hi and is he seeing what is happening today ?

We know that the Departure has to happen FIRST and then God will again deal with Israel !!

dan p

 

[whitestone]

yep first they say blessed is he that cometh in the name of the lord to the one who comes in his own name, then they realize what they have done,,,then they give their blessings to Jesus then they see him again,then the dead in Christ are raised,and then the rapture,,,

 

[Cross Reference]

Hi and is he seeing what is happening today ?

We know that the Departure has to happen FIRST and then God will again deal with Israel !!

dan p

Departure of who, the man-child maybe ___ before the great trip begins for 3 1/2 years of white robe washings? I think so.

 

[Danoh]

Hi and is he seeing what is happening today ?

We know that the Departure has to happen FIRST and then God will again deal with Israel !!

dan p

Lo, DP - no one makes a bigger issue of AD9 label [Acts 9 Dispensationalism] than you.

And yet, you are not Cessasionist?

This Mystery Age has no signs, 1 Corinthians 13:10.

 

[DAN P]

Departure of who, the man-child maybe ___ before the great trip begins for 3 1/2 years of white robe washings? I think so.

Hi and in 2 Thess 2:3 the Greek word there is APOSTASIA and does not mean Rapture , or " falling away " BUT means DEPARTURE of the Body of Christ !!

There is NO GREEK word for Rapture !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Lo, DP - no one makes a bigger issue of AD9 label [Acts 9 Dispensationalism] than you.

And yet, you are not Cessasionist?

This Mystery Age has no signs, 1 Corinthians 13:10.

Hi and I will debate anyone on the VALIDITY of Acts 9:6 and have 2 other ways to prove Acts 9 !!

If you stay within Pauline truth , anyone defense will be solid against all so-called cults , if they use a bible !!

dan p

 

[whitestone]

Hi and in 2 Thess 2:3 the Greek word there is APOSTASIA and does not mean Rapture , or " falling away " BUT means DEPARTURE of the Body of Christ !!

There is NO GREEK word for Rapture !!

dan p

do you believe in that day there will be those who will be caught up and meet Christ at his coming?

 

[everready]

Not the end of the world but instead the end of the age. The Lord Jesus' words at Matthew 24 were in answer to the disciples question found here:

"Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" (Mt. 24:3).​

Earlier the Lord Jesus spoke the parable of the "tares of the field" where He described what would occur at the "end of the age":

"He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this age. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear" (Mt. 13:37-43).​

There was never a time in the first century when a world wide harvest happened. And there was never a time in the first century when the Lord returned to the earth and judged everyone:

"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: 'See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him'" (Jude 14-15).​

i noticed you marked this text "end of the age" where in the KJV it says end of the world, i believe "end of the world" lines up with:

II Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

There will be a "new heavens and a new earth"


everready

 

[DAN P]

do you believe in that day there will be those who will be caught up and meet Christ at his coming?

Hi and that is what Paul in 2 Thess 2:1-3 is teaching , also in 1 Cor 15:51 and also in 1 Thess 4;13-18 !!

DAN P

 

[whitestone]

Hi and that is what Paul in 2 Thess 2:1-3 is teaching , also in 1 Cor 15:51 and also in 1 Thess 4;13-18 !!

DAN P

hello, and that "also is what I believe" that this is the body of Christ spoken of. Thank you for the scriptures you provided they were the very ones I had in mind. Although,in Revelation 20:4 KJV these who are of the first Resurrection it is said that they did not worship the Image,nor received his mark ect. and that they were beheaded for their witness of Jesus.

So if those who remain cannot prevent those who are in the grave(died for their witness),,then are they not then present and beheaded in fact while the image of the beast,his mark ect. are in the world? If so then before the "catching up of those who are alive at his coming",,then are preceded(takes place first) by the martyrdom of those who then will be martyred?

 

[Interplanner]

do you believe in that day there will be those who will be caught up and meet Christ at his coming?

re the Greek for 'rapture': harpageso. To be caught up, taken up. It can be subjective, but I Thess 4 is not.

 

[whitestone]

re the Greek for 'rapture': harpageso. To be caught up, taken up. It can be subjective, but I Thess 4 is not.

some preterits(most) do not believe in any form of the rapture,,do you,or will you say it is past?

 

[Interplanner]

There has to be one way for those who are dead in Christ to be changed into their eternal status and another for those who are alive on that last day. That's all this item is about. That's all he was trying to answer.

Do we really need to know? I don't think so, but I guess the readers/church thought the last day was going to be so awful that they wanted to know. Paul certainly expected all those things very shortly as any thinking person reading Thess will see. But the things having to do with the worldwide last day were postponed.

The things in Judea/at the temple/the man of sin occurred in the Jewish Revolt that failed utterly.

 

[whitestone]

There has to be one way for those who are dead in Christ to be changed into their eternal status and another for those who are alive on that last day. That's all this item is about. That's all he was trying to answer.

Do we really need to know? I don't think so, but I guess the readers/church thought the last day was going to be so awful that they wanted to know. Paul certainly expected all those things very shortly as any thinking person reading Thess will see. But the things having to do with the worldwide last day were postponed.

The things in Judea/at the temple/the man of sin occurred in the Jewish Revolt that failed utterly.

then you believe that those who were martyred in Revelation 20:4 KJV were martyred for not worshiping the image,and not receiving the number ect. and that the two horned beast had already came so hence all 7 heads existed prior to July,ad70?