Against abortion and against person-hood?

[ok doser]

And a fetus in the womb is not autonomous. It does not possess the liberty of free will ...

you could say the same about a newborn

 

[WizardofOz]

I'm pro-life, and consider abortion mortally sinful.

So you claim...but then you go on to say...

But
It is also intellectually dishonest to make the unborn commensurate in value to those born. To call abortion 'murder' is to make frivolous the lives of those born.

In other words, if you had to choose between a five month fetus and a two year old child, you would choose the two year old child- because you know at heart that a born life is more invaluable.

That's called a false dilemma. When would anyone have to choose between a two year old and a fetus?

Better yet, when do you feel women should have the legal choice to abort?

 

[Rusha]

So you claim...but then you go on to say...

That's called a false dilemma. When would anyone have to choose between a two year old and a fetus?

They wouldn't ... it's simply a way to devalue the unborn baby ... which is why I stated it's the type of an argument that I would expect from someone who is pro-abortion.

 

[WizardofOz]

They wouldn't ... it's simply a way to devalue the unborn baby ... which is why I stated it's the type of an argument that I would expect from someone who is pro-abortion.

Yup both [MENTION=17677]Crucible[/MENTION] and [MENTION=13737]aCultureWarrior[/MENTION] have rationalization for when it should be legal to kill your fetus. :sigh:

 

[Rusha]

Yup both @Crucible and @aCultureWarrior have rationalization for when it should be legal to kill your fetus. :sigh:

Indeed they do.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Yup both [MENTION=17677]Crucible[/MENTION] and [MENTION=13737]aCultureWarrior[/MENTION] have rationalization for when it should be legal to kill your fetus. :sigh:

I see that you're playing make believe again where you think you can vote for pro abortion candidates who run on pro abortion political party platforms and still be pro life.


1.5 Abortion

Recognizing that abortion is a sensitive issue and that people can hold good-faith views on all sides, we believe that government should be kept out of the matter, leaving the question to each person for their conscientious consideration.
http://www.lp.org/platform

 

[WizardofOz]

Here is aCW about to :blabla: about Obama and Gary Johnson, in a desperate attempt to deflect from his own argument in favor of choice.

 

[WizardofOz]

Here is aCW about to :blabla: about Obama and Gary Johnson, in a desperate attempt to deflect from his own argument in favor of choice.

Called it

 

[WizardofOz]

[MENTION=13737]aCultureWarrior[/MENTION] - both me and Rusha are pro-life. You are pro-choice. Stop deflecting about politicians.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

Indeed they do.

We already reviewed what your candidate has done while President of the United States Sandy in my "The Perversion of Libertarianism" thread.

I get the feeling that your candidate in the upcoming election (Hilary Clinton) won't be putting any Personhood legislation on her agenda if she should be elected POTUS.

 

[aCultureWarrior]

[MENTION=13737]aCultureWarrior[/MENTION] - both me and Rusha are pro-life. You are pro-choice. Stop deflecting about politicians.

Tell us how you both can promote a culture of death yet still be pro life (i.e. 'As long as it's consensual then no one is hurt').

I'll gladly discuss the Libertarian Party Platform that you vote for and show you how destructive it is towards life.

 

[Rusha]

Here is aCW about to :blabla: about Obama and Gary Johnson, in a desperate attempt to deflect from his own argument in favor of choice.

We already reviewed what your candidate has done while President of the United States Sandy in my "The Perversion of Libertarianism" thread.

I get the feeling that your candidate in the upcoming election (Hilary Clinton) won't be putting any Personhood legislation on her agenda if she should be elected POTUS.

Called it

Yes ... yes you did. He certainly is a predicable warrior. :chuckle:

 

[6days]

Yup both [MENTION=17677]Crucible[/MENTION] and [MENTION=13737]aCultureWarrior[/MENTION] have rationalization for when it should be legal to kill your fetus. :sigh:

No big deal about that..... SADLY
"I know that throughout my own pregnancies, I never wavered for a moment in the belief that I was carrying a human life inside of me. I believe that’s what a fetus is: a human life. And that doesn’t make me one iota less solidly pro-choice.
So What if Abortion ends a Human Life"
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/23/so_what_if_abortion_ends_life/

 

[WizardofOz]

Tell us how you both can promote a culture of death yet still be pro life (i.e. 'As long as it's consensual then no one is hurt').

I'll gladly discuss the Libertarian Party Platform that you vote for and show you how destructive it is towards life.

I'm not a Libertarian so :idea: let's talk about your pro-choice view versus my pro-life view.

Let me know when you're ready

 

[aCultureWarrior]

I'm not a Libertarian so :idea: let's talk about your pro-choice view versus my pro-life view.

Let me know when you're ready

So you didn't vote for Gary Johnson who ran on the Libertarian Party Platform?

Extremely rare occasions where the mother's life is endangered isn't pro choice.

 

[6days]

They wouldn't ... it's simply a way to devalue the unborn baby ... which is why I stated it's the type of an argument that I would expect from someone who is pro-abortion.

Here is another way to devalue human life.....
The "Nonhuman Rights Project" says that plants have "a right to evolve"!
http://www.npr.org/2012/10/26/160940869/recognizing-the-right-of-plants-to-evolve

Or, in Switzerland... "decapitation of wildflowers at the roadside without rational reason" is illegal.

The non human rights project more recently has been in court with their lawyers saying in a petition that the court should recognize the chimps as “autonomous and self-determining beings” who have the right to bodily liberty.
http://radio.foxnews.com/2015/05/27/new-york-court-to-decide-on-legal-rights-for-chimps/

I wonder how these people feel about sanctity of human life issues. (Abortion, euthanasia)

Sin is at the root of "non human rights"... They are in essence rebelling against the notion that humans are created in the image of God... and we are accountable to Him.

 

[Crucible]

That's called a false dilemma. When would anyone have to choose between a two year old and a fetus?

What does it matter? It's a question that has one honest answer- and three dishonest ones.

Abortion being commensurate to murder is a lie in which all people intrinsically know. It is a false reproach to abortion.

Better yet, when do you feel women should have the legal choice to abort?

I feel that a woman has the autonomous right to abort. Just herself, you see- let her blood upon her.

 

[Crucible]

They wouldn't ... it's simply a way to devalue the unborn baby ... which is why I stated it's the type of an argument that I would expect from someone who is pro-abortion.

No, the question is a pretty solid case against the false witnessing of murder in abortion. You won't answer it, funny enough, because not only is the honest answer a rebuttal to your notion, but the dishonest ones would be clearly lame and obvious.

You all make the mistake of putting entirely too much emphasis on a fetus and not the Adamic, personal sin of the woman. You make it about a crime based on adversarial rather than personal sin.

 

[Rusha]

Abortion being commensurate to murder is a lie in which all people intrinsically know. It is a false reproach to abortion.

I feel that a woman has the autonomous right to abort. Just herself, you see- let her blood upon her.

That makes you pro-abortion.

 

[Rusha]

You all make the mistake of putting entirely too much emphasis on a fetus

Well :duh: It is the innocent, unborn baby that is being intentionally killed via abortion.

and not the Adamic, personal sin of the woman.

Oh ... you wish to pretend this is a purely religious argument and that once again, men bear no responsibility in pregnancy. How very typical of ... of you.

You make it about a crime based on adversarial rather than personal sin.

I make this about the ultimate form of child abuse from a mother to her child, as well as anyone else who participated in the abuse. That means any father or doctor who helps facilitate the abortion is a participant to child abuse and child killing.

That pretty well covers it.