Against abortion and against person-hood?

[Town Heretic]

Then that's that.

Agreed, until someone can put a dent into it.

They're extreme cases whereas the underlying principle remains consistent. You're simply exploiting the circumstantial differences for rhetorical/dramatic purpose.

Like comparing the unborn to a rapist? lain: Like I could let that one go by the boards.

But this doesn't need be.. the simple (otherwise innocuous) act of snipping another's lock of hair may not be allowed sans consent under the identical principle which entails encroachment upon another's body

Right. You can't intrude upon another without invitation or the equivalent. By equivalent I mean something like setting up a park with benches and tables in your yard without posting a sign that says, "No trespass" where a reasonable person would assume invitation. Of course, the unborn's existence is prima facie evidence of invitation, absent rape.

And while you have a right to eject people from your land or allow someone to cut your hair, none of that entails killing anyone or the potential for it, reasonably. And if it did, absent a threat to your life, you'd be precluded from the act. The question of lethality then bringing the whole thing full circle and to the doorstep of right and being.

 

[Town Heretic]

See, you all call it murder, but have crafted it to emphasize anyone else EXCEPT the damn woman herself.

Literally nothing in that is true. Murder is a legal definition of an act. Abortion isn't murder, unless someone is speaking of it in a moral sense. It is, however, the unjustifiable taking of life that should be classified, in ever case absent preservation of the life of the mother, as murder. And anyone who does that should answer for it. Anyone with a hand in it.

 

[Crucible]

Literally nothing in that is true. Murder is a legal definition of an act. Abortion isn't murder, unless someone is speaking of it in a moral sense. It is, however, the unjustifiable taking of life that should be classified, in ever case absent preservation of the life of the mother, as murder. And anyone who does that should answer for it. Anyone with a hand in it.

Jesus and the modern day Jews are a perfect example of what I'm saying here- see, many Jews like to scapegoat the whole thing on the Romans, because Pilate sentenced him to die.

However, Jesus stated to Pilate that the Jews had the greater sin.

The woman, therefore, has the greater sin in abortion, not the one carrying it out.

I'm simply going by reality here- and being called misogynistic for it.
Funny how that always happens :chuckle:
Reality vs feminized minds

 

[Town Heretic]

Jesus and the modern day Jews are a perfect example of what I'm saying here- see, many Jews like to scapegoat the whole thing on the Romans, because Pilate sentenced him to die.

What Jews would do that and why?

However, Jesus stated to Pilate that the Jews had the greater sin.

You mean the Sanhedrin and those present who urged Pilate. Most Jews had no part in the process or presence. But you're missing why the sin was compounded on the part of those Jews who sought Christ's death. They used their presence and pleas/insistence to corrupt the judgement and use of power of the magistrate, who derived (as all leaders do) his authority from God.

This isn't about God declaring that whoever thinks up a plan is more guilty than the fellow who executes it. You missed his point. And your bit that follows is founded on that errant premise.

The woman, therefore, has the greater sin in abortion, not the one carrying it out.

No, you're overreaching, supra. Both the woman and those who carry out her will are as responsible for the death.

 

[Crucible]

No, you're overreaching, supra. Both the woman and those who carry out her will are as responsible for the death.

Birth control and abortion are both specifically and uniquely of women. They fought for it, they celebrate it- keep it at it's origin: abortionists exist because women who want abortions exist.

There's a bottom, and there's a bottom bottom.

 

[alwight]

Jesus and the modern day Jews are a perfect example of what I'm saying here- see, many Jews like to scapegoat the whole thing on the Romans, because Pilate sentenced him to die.

I'm not a Christian but I thought that Pilate washing his hands showed that it was the Jews who wanted Jesus to die, not him.:think:

 

[quip]

Like comparing the unborn to a rapist? lain: Like I could let that one go by the boards.

Well, I do remember stating that the unborn have no more an inherent right to a woman's body than a rapists may. Not quite sure of any direct comparison of the two though, I do know that my statement concerning encroachment wasn't histrionically premised around the dismissive idea that your argument was unconditionally "absurd"...so, there's that.

Right. You can't intrude upon another without invitation or the equivalent. By equivalent I mean something like setting up a park with benches and tables in your yard without posting a sign that says, "No trespass" where a reasonable person would assume invitation. Of course, the unborn's existence is prima facie evidence of invitation, absent rape.

I'd say it's rather direct evidence for the sexual impulse...lest the essential passions heralding sexual intercourse are solely reserved for procreation. I believe we could both make a good case against.

And while you have a right to eject people from your land or allow someone to cut your hair, none of that entails killing anyone or the potential for it, reasonably.

Of course. It was simply an allusion by way of contrast. Now, if you have a reasonable method for removing incipient life from the womb sans its subsequent demise....I'm all ears.

And if it did, absent a threat to your life, you'd be precluded from the act.

Not necessarily the case. I've every right to refuse you my blood...at the cost of your life.

The question of lethality then bringing the whole thing full circle and to the doorstep of right and being.

It first needs the capacity and permission to cross the very threshold....if continuance be its goal, that is.

 

[Crucible]

I'm not a Christian but I thought that Pilate washing his hands showed that it was the Jews who wanted Jesus to die, not him.:think:

Pilate didn't find any crime in Jesus because he was not guilty of any Roman laws, but sentenced him to die in fear of an uprising if he denied the Jews what they wanted.

That's what has happened with abortion- women protested and demanded birth control and abortion. They abhorred responsibility as a woman, and wanted to be as men.

What a sad state of affairs, really. All you feminized men haven't done anything over the past half a century other than feed it, and feed it, and feed it. You'll sit there and blame it on anything and everything before you make women front and center of it.

And as for atheists- what kind of man finds it to be a 'human right' of a woman to kill fetuses. Are you aware that men are just as part of the human genome as women, and that men have a NATURAL RIGHT to deny abortion to women? :freak:

You all have been brainwashed into a line of thinking that is absurd.

 

[Rusha]

Nah.

You focus on the fetus was to deter the attention of the 'murderer'.

See, you all call it murder, but have crafted it to emphasize anyone else EXCEPT the damn woman herself.

At this point, your rantings are nothing more than :kook:

I focus on the unborn CHILD because it is he/she that is being intentionally killed.

 

[Rusha]

Literally nothing in that is true. Murder is a legal definition of an act. Abortion isn't murder, unless someone is speaking of it in a moral sense.

Exactly.

 

[ZachLegoNinja]

I'm not a Christian but I thought that Pilate washing his hands showed that it was the Jews who wanted Jesus to die, not him.:think:

it is why.

 

[Crucible]

At this point, your rantings are nothing more than :kook:

I focus on the unborn CHILD because it is he/she that is being intentionally killed.

Yeah
And you focus on murderers just as much, or entirely, in all other matters.

With rape, you deter any line of logic that brings up women and rant on about 'victim blaming'. Point to the men and deny even common sense advise.


It's a pattern, and a very obvious one

 

[Rusha]

Yeah
And you focus on murderers just as much, or entirely, in all other matters.

You are completely incapable of rational thought on any topic where men are being held responsible for THEIR own behavior. Abortion happens because women and MEN are careless and do not wish to take responsibility for the life they created ... TOGETHER.

Women are 100% responsible for agreeing to have their unborn babies aborted. Men are 100% responsible for encouraging, supporting or aiding the mothers of their children in having an abortion. Women and men are BOTH 100% responsible for any child conceived via consensual sex.

Now quit hijacking the thread ... this is about abortion. The victim of abortion is ALWAYS the unborn baby.

 

[alwight]

Pilate didn't find any crime in Jesus because he was not guilty of any Roman laws, but sentenced him to die in fear of an uprising if he denied the Jews what they wanted.

No, clearly the Romans and Pilate were more than capable of dealing with any uppity locals. Appeasing the locals just wasn't something the Romans did. Crucifixion was how they routinely dealt with anyone who was causing them problems and it showed that they meant business.
Anyway now you seem to agree that the Jews, who could have had him set free, and not the Romans, were the ones who wanted Jesus killed. I can be so persuasive.

That's what has happened with abortion- women protested and demanded birth control and abortion. They abhorred responsibility as a woman, and wanted to be as men.

Ah the good old days when guys could love 'em and leave 'em.
I think you'll find though that plenty of guys these days don't want the responsibility of child support and if contraception has failed them will very quickly step up to the plate with abortion costs and a ride to the clinic.

What a sad state of affairs, really. All you feminized men haven't done anything over the past half a century other than feed it, and feed it, and feed it. You'll sit there and blame it on anything and everything before you make women front and center of it.

Yeah let's blame women for everything, we guys need scapegoats right? And it's so Biblical too.

And as for atheists- what kind of man finds it to be a 'human right' of a woman to kill fetuses. Are you aware that men are just as part of the human genome as women, and that men have a NATURAL RIGHT to deny abortion to women? :freak:

You all have been brainwashed into a line of thinking that is absurd.

It seems to me that this isn't about anyone's desire to kill fetuses but is about having the right to rationally choose based on one's own particular circumstances and moral compass, and not those of someone else. lain:

 

[Crucible]

You are completely incapable of rational thought on any topic where men are being held responsible for THEIR own behavior. Abortion happens because women and MEN are careless and do not wish to take responsibility for the life they created ... TOGETHER.

The only men who have any fault with abortion are the practitioners. This is where women TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for THEIR actions.

Women and men are BOTH 100% responsible for any child conceived via consensual sex.

The man suffers more consequence.

Now quit hijacking the thread ...

Who is hijacking the thread? It's not me, it's you not wanting to talk about abortion from any other angle.

the victim of abortion is ALWAYS the unborn baby.

Let's talk about nothing. It would be more productive than repeating the same thing over and over.
You just want to detract fromt the sin of the woman. That's all that is.

 

[Rusha]

The only men who have any fault with abortion are the practitioners. This is where women TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for THEIR actions.

Absolutely incorrect. Any father who pays for an abortion, drives the mother of his unborn child to an abortion OR encourages her to get an abortion is responsible for advocating and contributing to the killing of their unborn child. Just as any woman who drives another woman to an abortion or supports her decision to abort is responsible for contributing to abortion. Only in your warped agenda towards women have you imagined that anyone has suggested that women who abort their unborn babies are not responsible for intentionally killing t them.

Insofar as who is responsible for pregnancy, IF the sex is consensual, both parties are equally responsible.

 

[Crucible]

No, clearly the Romans and Pilate were more than capable of dealing with any uppity locals. Appeasing the locals just wasn't something the Romans did. Crucifixion was how they routinely dealt with anyone who was causing them problems and it showed that they meant business.

That's not what tradition states.

Anyway now you seem to agree that the Jews, who could have had him set free, and not the Romans, were the ones who wanted Jesus killed. I can be so persuasive.

I said from the get go that it was the Jews who wanted him dead, and have the greater sin. It was the central point- how you got that confused is beyond me.

Ah the good old days when guys could love 'em and leave 'em.

And now, women do that to men every day, and if a man brings it up, he's mocked. It's called 'insanity', and that's what you all are walking masses of.
In the event of pregnancy, it is a prospect to women and a terror to men who, without the leeway and support system a woman has, must struggle and hope that she doesn't bury her heel into her neck.

Yeah, the 'good ol days', when people such as yourself were called crooks.

Yeah let's blame women for everything, we guys need scapegoats right? And it's so Biblical too.

The Bible puts a lot of emphasis on the sin of Eve and a societal need of patriarchy for obvious good reason- a reason that you can't see because you are incapable of realizing how warped feminized society is.

It seems to me that this isn't about anyone's desire to kill fetuses but is about having the right to rationally choose based on one's own particular circumstances and moral compass, and not those of someone else. lain:

If a would-be father forces an abortion on his sexual partner, you would see this as some screwed up crime, even though it is very much his child as well.
That's because when it boils down to it, you've been trained to simply give women supremacy in any conflict of interest.

 

[patrick jane]

You just want to detract fromt the sin of the woman. That's all that is.

She said both the man and woman are responsible for the sin

 

[Rusha]

She said both the man and woman are responsible for the sin

For unplanned pregnancies, of course. For abortion, anyone who encourages or contributes to abortion holds partial blame. Of course that includes the mothers. As a mother of three who has gone through three pregnancies, I will never understand how any woman would or could allow someone to perform a procedure that would kill her child.

 

[patrick jane]

For unplanned pregnancies, of course. For abortion, anyone who encourages or contributes to abortion holds partial blame. Of course that includes the mothers. As a mother of three who has gone through three pregnancies, I will never understand how any woman would or could allow someone to perform a procedure that would kill her child.

Maybe younger people don't appreciate and understand the "life" part of the equation when getting pregnant. They don't value the unborn life for some reasons, which are all selfish.