Abortion Vigilantism Worksheet

[cravescheese]

Originally posted by Turbo

Did you read it? I got the impression that you didn't when you complained about how long it is.

Anyway, which is the first question to which you disagree with Bob's answer/reasoning?

I have read it.

Where/when did I complain that it is too long?

How about an apology for your false accusation?

I never said I disagreed with his answers or reasoning.

I maintain that if you used the same reasoning for Vigilantiism against the Nazi Holocaust, you would end up sitting on your hands while innocent people were killed in the crematoriums.

Where do you disagree with this reasoning?

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by cravescheese

I have read it.

Where/when did I complain that it is too long?

How about an apology for your false accusation?

I mistook granite1010's post for yours. Sorry.

It wasn't intentional.

I never said I disagreed with his answers or reasoning.

Then why are you criticizing the article?

I maintain that if you used the same reasoning for Vigilantiism against the Nazi Holocaust, you would end up sitting on your hands while innocent people were killed in the crematoriums.

By "sitting on your hands" do you mean "not sniping Nazis?" Is that a problem?

 

[cravescheese]

Originally posted by Turbo

I mistook granite1010's post for yours. Sorry.

It wasn't intentional.

Then why are you criticizing the article?

By "sitting on your hands" do you mean "not sniping Nazis?" Is that a problem?

See the new thread "Nazi Executioner Vigilantism Worksheet".

I am just pointing out that Pastor Enyart has tried to state that killing abortionists is wrong with his worksheet and that if you use the same worksheet applied to the holocaust, you end up not do anything (excluding sign waving and possibly stink bombs) about it.


So I will ask you, would you have killed Dr. Mengele if you had the opportunity to do so during the Holocaust?


(assuming you were a German Christian and knew what Mengele was doing)

Bob prides himself on his debate skills and logical thought processes, I say, great let's test them.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by cravescheese


So I will ask you, would you have killed Dr. Mengele if you had the opportunity to do so during the Holocaust?

Is any country at war against Germany yet?

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by cravescheese

Bob prides himself on his debate skills and logical thought processes, I say, great let's test them.

Then call him!

 

[cravescheese]

Originally posted by Turbo

Then call him!

Why do I need to call him?

It's clear from Herr Enyarkt's "Nazi Executioner Vigilantism Worksheet" that he would not have killed Mengele.

Now answer my question.

Would you have killed Mengele?

 

[Turbo]

I don't have enough information to answer your question.

Is any country at war against Germany yet?

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by cravescheese

Why do I need to call him?

Because you said you wanted to test his debate skills.

It's clear from Herr Enyarkt's "Nazi Executioner Vigilantism Worksheet" that he would not have killed Mengele.

Oh, I see. You already know exactly how everyone else is going to respond, so you can just play both sides.

Kinda like what you did to Knight on the tobacco thread.

 

[cravescheese]

Originally posted by Turbo

I don't have enough information to answer your question.

Is any country at war against Germany yet?

Let's assume it is December 6, 1941. Germany is at war with many countries and many countries are at war with Germany.

BTW, there are countries "at war" (though most in a cease fire or cold war) with America today.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by cravescheese

Let's assume it is December 6, 1941. Germany is at war with many countries and many countries are at war with Germany.

Then I may be able to take sides with those nations and kill Mengele as an act of war.

BTW, there are countries "at war" (though most in a cease fire or cold war) with America today.

There is no country at war with America seeking to liberate unborn babies. Even if the United States loses this war, that will not bring an end to legalized abortion. That is not what is at stake.




What is your point in all of this? Are you saying that Christian's ought to be hunting down abortionists and killing them?

 

[cravescheese]

Originally posted by Turbo

Then I may be able to take sides with those nations and kill Mengele as an act of war.

So could you take sides with the US's enemies and kill an Abortion doctor as an act of war?

Originally posted by Turbo

There is no country at war with America seeking to liberate unborn babies. Even if the United States loses this war, that will not bring an end to legalized abortion. That is not what is at stake.

Countries were not generally at war with Germany (including America) to liberate jews. During the war when it was discovered we later added that to our list of reasons to stop Hitler, but that is not why we entered into the War. Don't kid yourself. So with your logic are you saying you could kill Mengele once a country at war with Germany decided that liberating Jews was one of their goals as well? Had countries fighting Germany never decided that liberating Jews was a good thing then no killing Mengele, right?

Originally posted by Turbo

What is your point in all of this? Are you saying that Christian's ought to be hunting down abortionists and killing them?

My point is that the worksheet's logic would have allowed the holocaust to go on, even though their could have been people who could have stopped quite a bit of the Jew killing.

People like you would have had to first check in with Herr Enyarkt, apparently.

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by cravescheese

So could you take sides with the US's enemies...

In Germany vs. the Allies, the Allies were on the just side of the war. In the U.S. vs. Iraq/Muslim terrorists, the U.S. is on the just side of the war. Therefore it would be wrong to side with the US's enemies.

My point is that the worksheet's logic would have allowed the holocaust to go on, even though their could have been people who could have stopped quite a bit of the Jew killing.

By doing what? Sniping Nazis?


Are you saying that Christian's ought to be hunting down abortionists and killing them?

 

[cravescheese]

Why did you conveniently ignore my second point?

Oh well...

Originally posted by Turbo

In Germany vs. the Allies, the Allies were on the just side of the war. In the U.S. vs. Iraq/Muslim terrorists, the U.S. is on the just side of the war. Therefore it would be wrong to side with the US's enemies.

According to us, the winners, we were on the just side. Had the Nazi's won history would say they were the just side. Each "side" always believes they are just. The point is not what people think is just but what is just.

Logically, would it be just to kill Mengele in the scenario I presented?

Originally posted by Turbo

By doing what? Sniping Nazis?


Are you saying that Christian's ought to be hunting down abortionists and killing them?

I am saying that the worksheet would have let millions of Jews be killed even though people like you, without Herr Enyarkt's permission, could have stopped or prevented some of the killing.

If you are afraid that admitting that you should have killed Mengele in that scenario despite what Herr Enyarkt's worksheet says, might cause you to have to reject the worksheet for the abortionist scenario, well just admit that already.

Has it ever occurred to you that Bob isn't always right?

 

[Turbo]

Originally posted by cravescheese

According to us, the winners, we were on the just side. Had the Nazi's won history would say they were the just side. Each "side" always believes they are just.

I would have responded to this the same way you did, by saying, "The point is not what people think is just but what is just."

But not everyone in Germany thought the Germans were on the side of justice. What about the people who harbored Jews in their basements?

Are we on the just side in our war against Iraq/terrorism?

Logically, would it be just to kill Mengele in the scenario I presented?

I already answered you in post 30.

I am saying that the worksheet would have let millions of Jews be killed even though people like you, without Herr Enyarkt's permission, could have stopped or prevented some of the killing.

By doing what exactly? Sniping Nazis?


Are you saying that Christian's ought to be hunting down abortionists and killing them?

If you are afraid that admitting that you should have killed Mengele in that scenario despite what Herr Enyarkt's worksheet says,

Where does the article say that a person should not kill Mengele in your scenario?

might cause you to have to reject the worksheet for the abortionist scenario, well just admit that already.

Earlier, regarding the article, you said, "I never said I disagreed with his answers or reasoning."

So, are you saying that you do agree with his answers and reasoning?

Has it ever occurred to you that Bob isn't always right?

Of course! But where specifically do you think he is wrong in this article?

 

[cravescheese]

Originally posted by Turbo

I would have responded to this the same way you did, by saying, "The point is not what people think is just but what is just."

But not everyone in Germany thought the Germans were on the side of justice. What about the people who harbored Jews in their basements?

Are we on the just side in our war against Iraq/terrorism?
I already answered you in post 30.

I didn't see your answer in #30 as clear. It seems that you were saying you could kill Mengele as an act of war if the countries at war with Germany were as a matter of policy against the killing of Jews. What if they were just against Germany, but indifferent about the plight of the Jews? Could/Would you still kill Mengele?


Not everyone in America is on the side of the pro-abort government. What is your point?

Though not the proper thread, IMHO, we are just to attack our enemies, be they iraqi, terrorists, planned parenthood, the DNC etc...

Originally posted by Turbo

By doing what exactly? Sniping Nazis?


Are you saying that Christian's ought to be hunting down abortionists and killing them?

I am saying that Enyart's worksheet would allow Mengele to continue killing innocent Jews.

Originally posted by Turbo

Where does the article say that a person should not kill Mengele in your scenario?

I think I see your issue, and I may have made an error in reading the worksheet. My mistake.

Let me adjust the scenario, no one is at war with Germany.

Germany has defeated all possible opponents so no one can wage war against her. So now you a German citizen have the ability to take out Mengele.

Your worksheet would not only prohibit this, but allow it to continue until all Jews were killed.

Originally posted by Turbo

Earlier, regarding the article, you said, "I never said I disagreed with his answers or reasoning."

So, are you saying that you do agree with his answers and reasoning?

Of course! But where specifically do you think he is wrong in this article?

I never did say I disagreed with him about this, yet.

I will now say where I think he is in error.

I think he is wrong in requiring that you can only commit sabotage against your own nation to stop its evil acts if a foreign nation is waging war against it.

What if your nation is so powerful that no other nation could wage war against you?

What if your nation has conquered all other nations?

What if all other nations were just as evil.

For example what if Germany had taken over the whole earth?

What if America and England were conducting our own Holocausts at the same time and had no issue with the Germans killing jews.

What if we get to the point of world government and the world government decides to kill jews or babies or whatever? Do we wait for martians to attack before we do anything?

 

[Nineveh]

Bump

 

[Bob Enyart]

In this long war against God, I'm glad to be on Turbo's side!

In this long war against God, I'm glad to be on Turbo's side!

Turbo's logic is consistent with the worksheet. The Germans' extermination camps were built and Mengele did his human experiments during WW2. By the principles in this worksheet civilians could have taken up arms against both. This shows also that war readily provides hope and mercy to the domestic victims of murderous regimes.

Creamcheese seems to think that some principle, or the above worksheet, indicates that such civilian resistance against murderous NAZIs would be unjustified if the allied forces were unaware of, or did not share in, the goal of stopping the holocaust. Unless he's just confused, perhaps he can point to one or the other.

The modern use of concentration camps goes back to 1918 in Russia and the early 30s in Germany. Unjust incarceration goes back far beyond the Apostle Paul, but it would have been wrong to kill the Emperor because Paul, or others, had been unjustly imprisoned. Interestingly, even our own broken U.S. Supreme Court, occasionally correct like a broken clock, has ruled that resistance can rightly be used to thwart enforcement of an unconstitutional (better: unjust) law.

 

[Lighthouse]

In another thread it was recently posited that Batman was a terrorist, and so I wonder how he stacks up to the worksheet. Although I prefer to stay within the comic book universe, and the established canon of the primary DC universe therein. But, beyond that, I also then wonder where Batman's hero Zorro would stand.:think:

 

[Nathon Detroit]

In another thread it was recently posited that Batman was a terrorist, and so I wonder how he stacks up to the worksheet. Although I prefer to stay within the comic book universe, and the established canon of the primary DC universe therein. But, beyond that, I also then wonder where Batman's hero Zorro would stand.:think:

Dude.. Batman is a fictional character. You are starting to become a "thread derailer".

You want me to pull this car over? :sibbie:

 

[Lighthouse]

Dude.. Batman is a fictional character. You are starting to become a "thread derailer".

You want me to pull this car over? :sibbie:

It wasn't my intention to get an answer to that question on this thread. I merely wanted to state the idea, and then take it over into the thread where it belongs.

P.S.
Adam started it.