A Saviour unto Israel

[Elia]

Christ is called Israel Is. 49:3

Bs"d

How can people be so stupid as to make the above remark??

Israel is called the servant of God in the above text, just like in the following texts:

Isaiah 41:8: “But thou , Israel art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Thou who I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thou from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee: Thou art my servant, I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.”


Isaiah 44:1-2; “Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant, and Israel who I have chosen. Thus said the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; fear not O Jacob my servant, and thou Jesurun whom I have chosen.”


Isaiah 44:21; “Remember these, O Jacob and Israel, for thou art my servant. I have formed thee, thou art my servant; O Israel thou shalt not be forgotten of me


Isaiah 45:4; “For Jacob, my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name.”


Isaiah 48:20; “The lord hath redeemed his servant Jacob.”


Isaiah 49:3; “And said unto me: Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”

Add to this the fact that NOWHERE in the whole Tanach is the messiah ever referred to as "the servant of God", and then you wonder: How can anybody say: "Christ is called Israel"??

 

[Elia]

Is. 45:17
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Bs"d

Beautiful text, but let's not try to erase the name of God from it.

Here is a better translation:

"But Israel shall be saved in Y-H-W-H with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end."

 

[Notaclue]

Bs"d

How can people be so stupid as to make the above remark??

Israel is called the servant of God in the above text, just like in the following texts:

Isaiah 41:8: “But thou , Israel art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Thou who I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thou from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee: Thou art my servant, I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.”


Isaiah 44:1-2; “Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant, and Israel who I have chosen. Thus said the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; fear not O Jacob my servant, and thou Jesurun whom I have chosen.”


Isaiah 44:21; “Remember these, O Jacob and Israel, for thou art my servant. I have formed thee, thou art my servant; O Israel thou shalt not be forgotten of me


Isaiah 45:4; “For Jacob, my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name.”


Isaiah 48:20; “The lord hath redeemed his servant Jacob.”


Isaiah 49:3; “And said unto me: Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”

Add to this the fact that NOWHERE in the whole Tanach is the messiah ever referred to as "the servant of God", and then you wonder: How can anybody say: "Christ is called Israel"??

Is.59:20. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.
21. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.


Gal.3:6. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Rom.9:6. Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.



Eph.1:22. And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
23. Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


There is only one Son of God.

We are all part of the Body of Christ.


Peace.

 

[beloved57]

Bs"d

Beautiful text, but let's not try to erase the name of God from it.

Here is a better translation:

"But Israel shall be saved in Y-H-W-H with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end."

You better put golden calf in there.

 

[beloved57]

Bs"d

How can people be so stupid as to make the above remark??

Israel is called the servant of God in the above text, just like in the following texts:

Isaiah 41:8: “But thou , Israel art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Thou who I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thou from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee: Thou art my servant, I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.”


Isaiah 44:1-2; “Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant, and Israel who I have chosen. Thus said the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; fear not O Jacob my servant, and thou Jesurun whom I have chosen.”


Isaiah 44:21; “Remember these, O Jacob and Israel, for thou art my servant. I have formed thee, thou art my servant; O Israel thou shalt not be forgotten of me


Isaiah 45:4; “For Jacob, my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name.”


Isaiah 48:20; “The lord hath redeemed his servant Jacob.”


Isaiah 49:3; “And said unto me: Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”

Add to this the fact that NOWHERE in the whole Tanach is the messiah ever referred to as "the servant of God", and then you wonder: How can anybody say: "Christ is called Israel"??

Israel Abrahams descendants according to the flesh are not the children of God Rom 9:8.So that eliminates the golden calf worshippers!

 

[Elia]

You better put golden calf in there.

Bs"d

You prefer a golden calf above God.

I prefer the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is one.

 

[Elia]

Israel Abrahams descendants according to the flesh are not the children of God Rom 9:8.So that eliminates the golden calf worshippers!

Bs"d

So the Jews are not the Jews, but the pagan idolaters are the real Jews??

Why do you believe that nonsense from somebody who is a self-admitted liar?

 

[beloved57]

Bs"d

You prefer a golden calf above God.

I prefer the one and only true God Y-H-W-H who is one.

The jews did !

 

[beloved57]

Bs"d

So the Jews are not the Jews, but the pagan idolaters are the real Jews??

Why do you believe that nonsense from somebody who is a self-admitted liar?

The physical descendants of Abraham, Israel, they are not the children of God Rom 9:8

[FONT=&quot]That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.[/FONT]

 

[Elia]

Is.59:20. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith Y-H-W-H.
21. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith Y-H-W-H; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith Y-H-W-H, from henceforth and for ever.

Bs"d

Isn't that a beautiful text?

Gal.3:6. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

So what Paul claims here, is that because the word "seed" is in the singular, therefore it must refer to only one man.

Another one of the many great slip ups of Paul.

We see many times in the Tanach that the singular word "seed" is used for multiple descendants:

"Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your seed (singular) be.” Genesis 15:5

"Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, thy servants, to whom thou swarest by thine own self, and saidst unto them, I will multiply your seed as the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken of will I give unto your seed, (singular) and they (plural) shall inherit it for ever." Exodus 32:13

So Paul claiming it must speak about one man because it is in the singular makes another horrible mistake.

There is only one Son of God.

There is only one firstborn son of God:

"Thus saith Y-H-W-H, Israel is my son, even my firstborn.
And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn."
Ex 4:22

 

[beameup]

Bs"d



We see many times in the Tanach that the singular word "seed" is used for multiple descendants:

"Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your seed (singular) be.” Genesis 15:5

Let's not forget the "SEED of the WOMAN" that will crush the head of the "shining one", the "deceiver", nachash [see Genesis 3:15]

 

[Elia]

Let's not forget the "SEED of the WOMAN" that will crush the head of the "shining one", the "deceiver", nachash [see Genesis 3:15]

Bs"d

If you really want to see that text as a messianic prophecy, then you have another messianic prophecy which is NOT fulfilled by JC, because "your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" 1 Peter 5:8

 

[Nanja]

Bs"d

How can people be so stupid as to make the above remark??

Israel is called the servant of God in the above text, just like in the following texts:

Isaiah 41:8: “But thou , Israel art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend. Thou who I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thou from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee: Thou art my servant, I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.”


Isaiah 44:1-2; “Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant, and Israel who I have chosen. Thus said the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; fear not O Jacob my servant, and thou Jesurun whom I have chosen.”


Isaiah 44:21; “Remember these, O Jacob and Israel, for thou art my servant. I have formed thee, thou art my servant; O Israel thou shalt not be forgotten of me


Isaiah 45:4; “For Jacob, my servant’s sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name.”


Isaiah 48:20; “The lord hath redeemed his servant Jacob.”




Isaiah 49:3; “And said unto me: Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.”

Add to this the fact that NOWHERE in the whole Tanach is the messiah ever referred to as "the servant of God", and then you wonder: How can anybody say: "Christ is called Israel"??

Jesus Christ is Israel, the antitype of Jacob or Israel, and His Seed Chosen in Him is called Israel Gal. 3:16; Is.45:17.

He is the Head and Representative of the whole Israel of God:

Eph. 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

You don't understand the scriptures. Salvation has nothing to do with ethnicity Rom.2:29; Rev. 5:9.

 

[beameup]

Bs"d

If you really want to see that text as a messianic prophecy, then you have another messianic prophecy which is NOT fulfilled by JC, because "your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" 1 Peter 5:8

I'm afraid you are stuck in this "present world". Your neo-Judaism has "painted you into a corner" and you are incapable of "thinking outside the box".
My God isn't limited to three dimensions + time; He exists "outside of time and space". Having created His "Word" the Tanakh, He exhibits His transcendence outside your limited "world". However, unless you know Him personally, you cannot understand His "Word" and the prophecies contained therein, much less His overall "plan".
I'm afraid that your neo-Judaism has created a "god" that is temporal. BCE Mosaic Judaism was not in this predicament, although many did struggle with the "TWO MESSIAHS" clearly portrayed in the Tanakh.

So when the Divinely Inspired Scriptures reveal a "clue" :sherlock: to you, you simply cannot see it... you "cannot see the forest for the trees". Like the cults, you practice "eisegesis", reading into the text with pre-conceived notions, rather than letting the text (ie: Hebrew) "speak to you".

 

[Elia]

I'm afraid you are stuck in this "present world". Your neo-Judaism has "painted you into a corner" and you are incapable of "thinking outside the box".
My God isn't limited to three dimensions + time; He exists "outside of time and space". Having created His "Word" the Tanakh, He exhibits His transcendence outside your limited "world". However, unless you know Him personally, you cannot understand His "Word" and the prophecies contained therein, much less His overall "plan".
I'm afraid that your neo-Judaism has created a "god" that is temporal. BCE Mosaic Judaism was not in this predicament, although many did struggle with the "TWO MESSIAHS" clearly portrayed in the Tanakh.

Bs"d

As I told you before, there are many messiah's to be found in the Tanach. Of course you won't see them in your corrupted translations, but when you look in the original text then it is obvious.

So when the Divinely Inspired Scriptures reveal a "clue" :sherlock: to you, you simply cannot see it... you "cannot see the forest for the trees". Like the cults, you practice "eisegesis", reading into the text with pre-conceived notions, rather than letting the text (ie: Hebrew) "speak to you".

That must also be the reason that I cannot understand that 1 + 1 + 1 = 1, and not 3. :kookoo:

 

[beameup]

Bs"d

As I told you before, there are many messiah's to be found in the Tanach. Of course you won't see them in your corrupted translations, but when you look in the original text then it is obvious.

The "original text" won't reveal anything to you if you are blind. :rotfl: or asleep. :nono:

For YHWH hath poured out upon
you the spirit of deep sleep,
and hath closed your eyes.
Isaiah 29:10a

You are still under God's judgment
And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. - Isaiah 6:9-10

Jer 5:21, Ezek 12:2,Isa 44:18, Psa 69:22, Jer 6:10, etc.

 

[Ben Masada]

double post - deleted

 

[Ben Masada]

A Savior unto Israel

What did Jesus save? When the Jews were in exile in Egypt, Moses showed up with the mission from HaShem to save the them and to take them into the Promised Land. The People thought that the Messiah had come. Moses did work on his Divine mission but was proved to be only a Messianic leader to take Israel back home. But then, and there, Israel did not have this understanding yet. Many years later the Jews were taken into exile again and this time in Babylon. By the end of the exile, Cyrus the Persian king won the title of a Messianic leader for proclaiming freedom to the Jews and financing the rebuilding of the Temple. (Isaiah 45:1)

At the time of the Romans, the Jews were suffering under foreign occupation and, it was during this time that Jesus was born, the occupation only became worse during Jesus' lifetime and, at the end of the Roman occupation, the Jews lost the Temple and the Land and were taken into another exile of about 2000 years.

Yes, what did Jesus save? That's very sad to say but, he did not classify even as a Messianic leader, let alone the Messiah and savior. Bottom line, Jesus saved nothing as the People were concerned but rather lost the Temple and the Land.

 

[beloved57]

What did Jesus save? When the Jews were in exile in Egypt, Moses showed up with the mission from HaShem to save the them and to take them into the Promised Land. The People thought that the Messiah had come. Moses did work on his Divine mission but was proved to be only a Messianic leader to take Israel back home. But then, and there, Israel did not have this understanding yet. Many years later the Jews were taken into exile again and this time in Babylon. By the end of the exile, Cyrus the Persian king won the title of a Messianic leader for proclaiming freedom to the Jews and financing the rebuilding of the Temple. (Isaiah 45:1)

At the time of the Romans, the Jews were suffering under foreign occupation and, it was during this time that Jesus was born, the occupation only became worse during Jesus' lifetime and, at the end of the Roman occupation, the Jews lost the Temple and the Land and were taken into another exile of about 2000 years.

Yes, what did Jesus save? That's very sad to say but, he did not classify even as a Messianic leader, let alone the Messiah and savior. Bottom line, Jesus saved nothing as the People were concerned but rather lost the Temple and the Land.

The jews said that the golden calf delivered them.

 

[beloved57]

More on the national rejection, casting away of Israel, they are not the children of God Rom 9:8!

Something needs to be clarified about this truth, even though the physical descendants of Abraham Israel has suffered permanently a national rejection, that doesn't entail or mean a ethnic rejection, for the two are entirely different. That is why Paul could say even in lieu of the national rejection, that it didn't mean ethnic rejection, notice Rom 11:1
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

Also ethnic jews would be included in the Abrahamic, Gen 12:3
And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

ethnic jews are part of all the families of the earth.