Yes, because the hours were lengthening. Midday was noon on the sundials regardless of the season.
Jesus asked, "Are there not twelve hours in the day?" (John 11:9 NKJV)
7th Day Adventists don't like Catholics or the unborn
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Yes, because the hours were lengthening. Midday was noon on the sundials regardless of the season.
Jesus asked, "Are there not twelve hours in the day?" (John 11:9 NKJV)
iouae
Well-known member
Are you saying there always are 12 hours in a day because Christ made this general statement?
Only around the equinoxes for 2 weeks or so is the day EXACTLY 12 hours long, and so is the night. For the other 50 weeks, the day is NOT 12 hours long.
Or are you saying the Hebrew calendar hours varied in length? If so, I would love to see a link.
And yes, midday is noon, is when the shadow is shortest - by definition.
Edit: Seems like Hebrew hours do vary in length.
"The Jewish daytime hours began with dawn and ended with sundown, which began the next day. The hours are seasonal, so the length of the daylight hours varied with the season of the year."
http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/jewishtimedivision.htm
WonderfulLordJesus
New member
Romans 14:5-6 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.
Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.
Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
iouae
Well-known member
Just researched it at this site.
http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/jewishtimedivision.htm
Here they say..."The Jewish daytime hours began with dawn and ended with sundown, which began the next day. The hours are seasonal, so the length of the daylight hours varied with the season of the year."
Fascinating - if true
Thanks
oatmeal
Well-known member
Catholics don't like Catholics and the unborn.
re: ""I am using the Gregorian calendar to explain Jewish days. There was no Wednesday DAY [time] in the count."
Why are you doing that? A calendar day at the time of the crucifixion was generally considered to begin at sunset. When the Messiah gave His prophesy wouldn't He have been basing it on a sunset to sunset calendar day?
Why are you doing that? A calendar day at the time of the crucifixion was generally considered to begin at sunset. When the Messiah gave His prophesy wouldn't He have been basing it on a sunset to sunset calendar day?
iouae
Well-known member
Yes, but try explaining 3 days and 3 nights, and which days of the week this was without the Gregorian calendar. The moment I say He was crucified on a Wednesday at sunset and rose on a Saturday at sunset, I am using our Gregorian days of the week.
The time between these to Gregorian references is exactly 3 full Hebrew days and nights.
Cruciform
New member
oatmeal is a non-Christian who likes to deliberately misrepresent the Catholic Church and her teachings.
iouae,
re: "Yes, but try explaining 3 days and 3 nights, and which days of the week this was without the Gregorian calendar."
OK, let's say the crucifixion took place on the 5th day of the week. Luke 23:53-56 indicates that the Messiah was placed in the tomb that same day - thus daytime 1 of His prophesy. Then the 6th day of the week would account for night time 1 and daytime 2 of His prophesy. And then the 7th day of the week would account for night time 2 and daytime 3 of His prophesy. So a first calendar day of the week resurrection (Mark 16:9) would provide night time 3 of His prophesy. This would be three days after the crucifixion in accordance with Mark 31:8. It also agrees with Luke 24:21.
re: "Yes, but try explaining 3 days and 3 nights, and which days of the week this was without the Gregorian calendar."
OK, let's say the crucifixion took place on the 5th day of the week. Luke 23:53-56 indicates that the Messiah was placed in the tomb that same day - thus daytime 1 of His prophesy. Then the 6th day of the week would account for night time 1 and daytime 2 of His prophesy. And then the 7th day of the week would account for night time 2 and daytime 3 of His prophesy. So a first calendar day of the week resurrection (Mark 16:9) would provide night time 3 of His prophesy. This would be three days after the crucifixion in accordance with Mark 31:8. It also agrees with Luke 24:21.
iouae
Well-known member
I agree that would work if one counts the few minutes of daylight of day 5 as a day.
That day was the Preparation and the Sabbath drew near. (Luke 23:54 NKJV)
What does "drew near" mean? What Greek word was translated drew near?
iouae
Well-known member
I am no Greek scholar but the word in question is
epiphosko
epi = “upon,” “on,” “over,” “ near,”
phos = light
Thayers defines it as "to grow light, to dawn"
Strongs defines it as "to begin to grow light - begin to dawn"
I still believe the true timing is at the exact time of sunset or "at dawn of the Jewish day". I still believe it was a Wednesday afternoon sunset that the tomb was closed and the count began.
That is the only way it can be ON the third day and AFTER the third day that Christ rose, viz the cusp of the day or Saturday sunset.
I don't see how the Thursday sunset burial of Christ takes care of "AFTER" 3 days. It only takes care of ON the third day...
And Christ was risen before sunrise, so no part of Sunday's day could count as "after".
Thus a count starting on Thurs near sunset has a tiny part of Thurs afternoon = day 1
Friday day = day 2
Saturday day = day 3
Mark 8:31 And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Yes, as Jesus was entombed the Sabbath dawned meaning it began. This word epiphosko is also used in Matthew 28:1 and is translated dawn.
iouae
Well-known member
I agree with you. It seems to be the word talking of a change of light, dawn or dusk. Found in Luke 23:54 (drew on) and Matt 28:1 (to dawn).
iouae,
re: "The moment I say He was crucified on a Wednesday at sunset and rose on a Saturday at sunset, I am using our Gregorian days of the week."
Two things:
The moment you say He was crucified on a Wednesday at sunset is the moment that you would be incorrect in your assertion. Mark 15:25 says that it was around 9am when He was crucified.
Also, when you say 'Gregorian days' I assume you mean a calendar day reckoned from midnight to midnight. So using a midnight to midnight calendar day, what calendar day of the week - the 4th or the 5th - are you saying the Messiah was placed in the tomb?
re: "The time between these to Gregorian references is exactly 3 full Hebrew days and nights."
You're mixing the proverbial apples and oranges. A Gregorian midnight to midnight calendar day consists of 2 night times whereas the supreme being's sunset to sunset calendar day consists of 1 night time.
BTW, why do you suppose the woman waited until the first day of the week to go to the tomb with the spices?
re: "The moment I say He was crucified on a Wednesday at sunset and rose on a Saturday at sunset, I am using our Gregorian days of the week."
Two things:
The moment you say He was crucified on a Wednesday at sunset is the moment that you would be incorrect in your assertion. Mark 15:25 says that it was around 9am when He was crucified.
Also, when you say 'Gregorian days' I assume you mean a calendar day reckoned from midnight to midnight. So using a midnight to midnight calendar day, what calendar day of the week - the 4th or the 5th - are you saying the Messiah was placed in the tomb?
re: "The time between these to Gregorian references is exactly 3 full Hebrew days and nights."
You're mixing the proverbial apples and oranges. A Gregorian midnight to midnight calendar day consists of 2 night times whereas the supreme being's sunset to sunset calendar day consists of 1 night time.
BTW, why do you suppose the woman waited until the first day of the week to go to the tomb with the spices?
iouae
Well-known member
OK so let's not split hairs
You believe in a Thurs sunset (last bit of 5th day, beginning 6th day) to a Sunday early morning (1st day) 3 days and 3 nights.
I believe in a Wed sunset (beginning 5th day) to Sat sunset (beginning of 1st day/end of 7th day) 3 days and 3 nights.
If I were to guess, it would be because the tomb was sealed with a guard for 3 days and nights. They had rested the Sabbath. They had bought spices on Friday. They needed light to do the enbalming, so they could not come Sat night (beginning of 1st day).
So they came as early as they could Sun morning while it was still dark (1st day morning).
John 20:1-18
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
So how do you account for the AFTER 3 days scripture?
Yes, the KJV obfuscated epiphosko to support a Friday crucifixion. They needed a part of Friday to make parts of three days.
We know Jesus was not entombed on the afternoon of the day he was crucified because the first day of the week was the third day.
But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel. Indeed, besides all this, today is the third day since these things happened. (Luke 24:21 NKJV)
Had Jesus been entombed on Friday the weekly Sabbath would have been the first day since, Sunday would have been the second day since and Monday would have been the third day since.
Had Jesus been entombed on Wednesday afternoon Thursday would have been the first day since, Friday would have been the second day and the weekly Sabbath would have been the third day.
The third day since negates the Friday entombment.