31 Reasons To Reject The Jab

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond

ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
The worst thing he did was leave us with Hochul



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ok doser

lifeguard at the cement pond
Jordan Peterson trying to explain to a brainwashed sheeple that the only reason the sheeple believes it was a vaccine is because he was told to believe that it's a vaccine. And because they literally changed the definition of vaccine.


 

SwordOfTruth

Active member
Banned

"In a surprise move, the local government of West Australian mining town Port Hedland has voted to call for the immediate suspension of the Moderna and Pfizer Covid vaccines pending an investigation into evidence of excessive levels of synthetic DNA in the shots.

At a special meeting on Friday night, Port Hedland Councillors voted five votes to two to notify every one of Australia’s 537 local councils of the evidence of the DNA contamination in the vaccines and associated risks.

“We are gravely concerned about the potential health risks posed by synthetic DNA contamination, including the dangers of genomic integration, cancer, hereditary defects and immune system disruption,” the letter says."
 

Iconoblast

New member
For context, the flu shot is not meant to prevent flu and flu symptoms. It is meant to prevent death due to secondary bacterial pneumonia and comorbid conditions (respiratory and circulatory in the elderly).

I don’t know the difference between a vaccine, immunization, and inoculation. Policy makers trying to explain will get tripped up in semantics. Doesn’t make them liars.

My litmus test is whether the developers of the vaccine took the vaccine. My understanding is they generally did.
 

SwordOfTruth

Active member
Banned
For context, the flu shot is not meant to prevent flu and flu symptoms. It is meant to prevent death due to secondary bacterial pneumonia and comorbid conditions (respiratory and circulatory in the elderly).

Can you cite a source for this claim please?


My litmus test is whether the developers of the vaccine took the vaccine. My understanding is they generally did.

It's impossible to know who took what. Your litmus test is therefore horribly flawed.

A better litmus test would be to look at the history of any given Pharmaceutical to see if they have a history of malpractice and fraudulent activity, thus putting profits before people's health. That's easily achieved with a little Googling.

For example in regards to Pfizer:

PFIZER

2009 - Justice Department Announces Largest Health Care Fraud Settlement in Its History


"American pharmaceutical giant Pfizer Inc. and its subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn Company Inc. (hereinafter together "Pfizer") have agreed to pay $2.3 billion, the largest health care fraud settlement in the history of the Department of Justice, to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from the illegal promotion of certain pharmaceutical products"

"In addition, Pfizer has agreed to pay $1 billion to resolve allegations under the civil False Claims Act that the company illegally promoted four drugs – Bextra; Geodon, an anti-psychotic drug; Zyvox, an antibiotic; and Lyrica, an anti-epileptic drug – and caused false claims to be submitted to government health care programs for uses that were not medically accepted indications and therefore not covered by those programs. The civil settlement also resolves allegations that Pfizer paid kickbacks to health care providers to induce them to prescribe these, as well as other, drugs. The federal share of the civil settlement is $668,514,830 and the state Medicaid share of the civil settlement is $331,485,170. This is the largest civil fraud settlement in history against a pharmaceutical company"




2010 - Tough on Crime? Pfizer and the CIHR

"Pfizer has been a “habitual offender,” persistently engaging in illegal and corrupt marketing practices, bribing physicians and suppressing adverse trial results. Since 2002 the company and its subsidiaries have been assessed $3 billion in criminal convictions, civil penalties and jury awards"

"In 2002, Pfizer and its subsidiaries Warner–Lambert and Parke–Davis paid $49 million to resolve civil claims that it had failed to report best prices for its drug Lipitor as is required under the Medicaid Drug Rebate Statute."

"In 2004, Pfizer subsidiary Warner–Lambert pleaded guilty and paid more than $430 million to resolve criminal charges and civil liability arising from its fraudulent marketing practices with respect to Neurontin, its brand for the drug gabapentin. Originally developed for the treatment of epilepsy, Neurontin was illegally promoted off-label for the treatment of various forms of neurological pain, and in particular for migraine."

"In 2007, Pfizer subsidiary Pharmacia & Upjohn paid $34 million and pleaded guilty to paying kickbacks for formulary placement of its drugs and entered into a Deferred Prosecution Agreement for off-label distribution of Genotropin, its brand for the human growth hormone somatropin (US Department of Health & Human Services and US Department of Justice n.d.)"


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/


Then in regards to Astrazeneca:

AstraZeneca

2010 - Drug Giant AstraZeneca to Pay $520 Million to Settle Fraud Case


"April 27, 2010— -- Pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca will pay $520 million in fines to settle charges by the federal government that it illegally marketed the anti-psychotic drug Seroquel to children and elderly patients for uses not approved by the Food and Drug Administration.

AstraZeneca, one of the country's biggest drug firms, allegedly pulled in hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars through Medicare and Medicaid kickbacks and scams. Seroquel is used to treat schizophrenia in patients older than 13, and bipolar disorder in patients older than 10.

The FDA approved Seroquel to treat only psychotic disorders, specifically short-term treatments of schizophrenia, bipolar mania and bipolar depression. The government claims that AstraZeneca intentionally marketed the drugs -- by paying kickbacks to doctors -- for a variety of illnesses for which it had never been tested, including aggression, Alzheimer's, anger management, anxiety, attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder, dementia, depression, mood disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder and sleeplessness. It was given to the elderly, children, veterans and inmates, who were treated as "guinea pigs," according to the acting U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania."

"AstraZeneca paid $355 million in 2003 after pleading guilty to charges that it encouraged physicians to illegally request Medicare reimbursements for its cancer drug Zoladex, and bribed doctors to buy it.

Other drug giants have also been embroiled in similar controversies and have admitted to using illegal marketing tactics. In March, Pfizer was told to pay $142.1 million for violating U.S. racketeering law by illegally promoting its epilepsy drug Neurontin for non-authorized illnesses"


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Hea...ting-seroquel-schizophrenia/story?id=10488647


AstraZeneca: Corporate Rap Sheet

"Product Safety

"In 2002 AstraZeneca said it would put a more conspicuous warning label on its lung cancer drug Iressa after several patients in Japan suffered pneumonia and some died.

In 2003 researchers at the University of Illinois-Chicago released the results of research concluding that AstraZeneca’s Seroquel and two other schizophrenia drugs made by other companies created an elevated risk for diabetes. Subsequently, more than 25,000 lawsuits were filed against the company. In 2010 the company said it would pay a total of $198 million to settle those cases. That same year, the UK’s Prescription Medicines Code of Practice Authority found that AstraZeneca had failed to adequately describe the risks of Seroquel in an advertisement for the drug in a medical journal.

In 2004 the watchdog group Public Citizen urged the federal government to ban AstraZeneca’s new cholesterol drug Crestor because of evidence linking it to the life-threatening muscle condition rhabdomyolysis. Noting that the company had not submitted timely reports to the FDA on some two dozen serious adverse reactions to Crestor, Public Citizen also called for a criminal investigation of the company. A 2005 study performed at Tufts University found that Crestor users had more serious side effects than those taking other cholesterol drugs.

Also in 2004, an FDA review of AstraZeneca’s new blood thinner Exanta questioned the safety and effectiveness of the drug."


www.corp-research.org/astrazeneca


Then in regards to Johnson and Johnson:

Johnson & Johnson



Finally J&J was fined $2.2bn in 2013 to 'resolve criminal liability arising from the promotion of' prescription drugs with dangerous side effects
for purposes not approved as safe by the FDA, as well as paying doctors and pharmacies 'kickbacks' for promoting the drugs:



"WASHINGTON - Global health care giant Johnson & Johnson (J&J) and its subsidiaries will pay more than $2.2 billion to resolve criminal and civil liability arising from allegations relating to the prescription drugs Risperdal, Invega and Natrecor, including promotion for uses not approved as safe and effective by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and payment of kickbacks to physicians and to the nation’s largest long-term care pharmacy provider. The global resolution is one of the largest health care fraud settlements in U.S. history, including criminal fines and forfeiture totaling $485 million and civil settlements with the federal government and states totaling $1.72 billion."

- - -

Seriously this stuff is not hard to find, just a simple few internet searches reveals how wicked and profit obsessed Pharmaceuticals are imho.
 

Iconoblast

New member
Can you cite a source for this claim please?
The CDC says it “may reduce severity”. It does not state that you won’t get the flu if vaccinated, as was erroneously stated about Covid vaccines.


Since you are adept at Google searches, it’s right at your fingertips. The underpinning scientific articles are out of my reach as I’m in my car and their interpretation may be over my head.


This one’s a little depressing. Last season we hit a milestone of 200 pediatric deaths from flu in the USA. 80% of those were unvaccinated.

Regarding pharmaceutical companies, I trust them about as far as I can throw them. However, “marketing and misrepresentation” can be as benign as a drug rep answering a question from a physician about an indication they’re not allowed to discuss yet. It does not matter whether the drug actually works for that symptom. (Please read that again.) That is a line they cannot cross without risk of litigation or losing their jobs. If they could, providers might be better informed.

Kickbacks, obviously bad, can be as bland as a discount in bulk sold to a not for profit hospital. It would have limited influence on prescribers, a notoriously sassy and opinionated lot. 30 years ago if you’re a famous doc astra zeneca flies you to Paris. Nowadays it’s ink pens and sandwiches. Are things better?
In the 90s, the average cost to bring a drug to market was over $750 million and took 10 years. Imagine the cost today! If a company such as Boston scientific wants to change IV tubing, I’m told it’s a 3 to 5 year process. Point being this is the among the most highly regulated industries on earth, second perhaps only to the nuclear power industry, to the detriment of us all. That’s a key reason why things are so expensive. And more regulation won’t make it better.

Regarding profit motive, true and I wouldn’t have it any other way. Otherwise there would be no pharma, big or small. The engine needs oiling such that federal funds tend to find their way into private sector research labs, by a one-way street. Making money is the primary job of a corporation. I imagine it’s a difficult ethical path to plot when you have shareholders to satisfy, a sketch reputation, a complex relationship with the federal government, fierce competitors, a need for human trials, and thousands of highly trained employees to pay.

Should one feel differently about Apple or Google or General Motors? It’s hard to find a squeaky clean company, and you’re quoting lawsuits that are 20 years old. Many pharma employees are no doubt Christian. Are we listening to whistleblowers today, even if they don’t fit our political preferences?

I should comment on more recent litigation over OxyContin. Every executive, chemist, patient, prescriber, and pharmacist knew absolutely beyond a shadow of doubt the medication was addictive. It was hoped to be *less* addictive. Broadening from addiction and vaccines to general side effects, an old professor sayeth “any drug can cause any problem at any time”. Pharma must report what they know, and when they knew it. If they don’t, they’re in the doghouse as above. If they do, they can still take a silly big hit from a civil lawsuit. For example silicone breast implants. Not statistically associated with any medical problem, but still good for $500 million or so.

If you’re able to look beyond Google and talk to industry people, even uglier stuff happens. Phase one trials for chemotherapy drugs are strictly for toxicity testing. No intent to benefit the patient whatsoever. Yet hopeful people sign up. The stated of chance of benefit is about 3% if I recall correctly. Phase 2 trials are in a way worse, when people who have terrible side effects are encouraged to stay enrolled in the trial just so the work can be statistically powered. They also do not benefit. I apologize if you already know this information, and certainly your perspective and interpretation may be different than mine. I’d still take the chemo, if i thought it could help me.

Your implication is that a reputable pharmaceutical company that puts humans before profit could make an anti-Covid product and you would strongly consider taking it. True or false?

Imho Fauci is a dirtbag. I enjoyed seeing him perjure himself, but it looks like he will get away with it. As will our state enemy across the Pacific. Fauci is a poster child for the incestuous relationship between big Pharma and big government.
He admitted to taking the jab and admitted to getting mild Covid. Therefore, he passes my litmus test. I sure didn’t envy his job: he had a bullhorn to millions of emotionally wound, scientifically illiterate people. He had to both predict the future and dumb down the present. All while many were dwelling on the past. I don’t know who could have excelled in that role.
 
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SwordOfTruth

Active member
Banned
Your implication is that a reputable pharmaceutical company that puts humans before profit could make an anti-Covid product and you would strongly consider taking it. True or false?

False I'm afraid. There's a plethora of things that should be considered before anyone heads towards any pharmaceutical product or treatment imo.

1. Does the pathogen in question represent a severe tangible risk to me personally?
2. What is the state of my immune system?
3. Have I already recovered from said pathogen or another pathogen with similar characteristics?
4. What natural remedies are available to deal with the pathogen?

and so on

Since your question specifically cited Covid, which is a blanket term for a variety of conditions/symptom caused by the SARS-COV-2 virus I have to respond accordingly. Covid never represented any kind of significant threat to me personally. I never believed for a second the scaremongering and OTT attempts by the industry and government and their useful idiots to frighten everyone into thinking it was Bubonic Plague. That was appalling. I did my research and did it well.

I read the official Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trial papers that were submitted to the FDA. From those it was clear that the benefit of being vaccinated was abysmally small, like less that 0.5% difference. It was also clear from those papers that there were significant serious side effects possible. The papers also highlighted that testing was not complete and that testing would continue for a full 2 years and included the fact that testing hadn't been done for pregnant women or young children. That will have changed since, but at the time of the roll-out that's where things stood.

On top of all this there were numerous reputable scientific papers from MIT and the like that stated clearly that very large numbers of people already had levels of immunity to the virus which they gained from past bouts of colds, Flu, ILIs and other related pathogens. There were also other surveys and papers published that highlighted that HUGE numbers of the population had already contracted Covid and recovered well before the vaccines became available and thus herd immunity was already very significant, a fact that the industry and governments tried desperately to play down, even wickedly saying that a person's innate and adaptive immune system was less effective than the vaccines.

In terms of my personal situation, I had I believe already contracted Covid in December 2019 which was before any pandemic had been officially declared. I had spoken to numerous friends too who likewise said they'd all experienced a significant Flu-like illness at the tail end of 2019.
Hence I believe I'd already gained NATURAL IMMUNITY from having had Covid. That being the case there was absolutely no need for me to take any kind of risky vaccination or other treatment. I trust my immune system. Once it has learned to recognise a pathogen, it doesn't need teaching again imo.

In terms of natural remedies or other options there were plenty. We saw the lengths the industry went to in order to suppress theraputic options like Ivermectin and that alone spoke volumes about whether human health of Pharma profits were controlling things.

So with 100s of scientific studies at my fingertips, reams of data, the actual Pfizer/Moderna vaccine trial papers at hand and so on it was a really easy decision to stay as far away from those jabs as I possibly could. My choice has been imo vindicated 100 fold since the roll-outs. I kept copies of the government vaccine surveillance reports which came out weekly and these showed week on week that the vast majority of Covid Cases, Covid hospitalistions and Covid Deaths were among the vaccinated, not the unvaccinated. That was right through 2021 and shortly after that the government just stopped producing those weekly reports, I presume they were too damning of the vaccines and the data didn't fit the narrative they wanted to peddle.

So in all honesty, No, I wouldn't reach for any Pharma vaccine going forward unless things were utterly desperate. I believe the industry is wicked and evil and totally corrupt and now after all the stuff we've seen during the pandemic they are for me totally untrustworthy. I will always go to natural remedies in the first instance and seek to live a healthy lifestyle that keeps my immune system in good condition.


Imho Fauci is a dirtbag. I enjoyed seeing him perjure himself, but it looks like he will get away with it. As will our state enemy across the Pacific. Fauci is a poster child for the incestuous relationship between big Pharma and big government.
He admitted to taking the jab and admitted to getting mild Covid. Therefore, he passes my litmus test.

Your trust here is totally naive imho. You have no idea if he took the jab or not. Even when we see videos of celebs taking the jab we have no way to know if it was actual vaccine or just saline.
 
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Iconoblast

New member
Do you mean to suggest Fauci might fake the jab then cast doubt on its efficacy by admitting he got Covid, thrice? You are right of course, I don’t know. Pulling a fast one on the public takes a huge amount of coordination and competence. I see more incompetence than corruption. Are there armies of government employees seeking to stuff a toxic vaccine into you? No, just a few misguided policy makers and their leftist sycophants. Trying to figure out why leads quickly into the farsocial and comical. There are safer, less consequential, easier ways to take our money and freedom.

Jumping in at various points on a rapidly evolving timeline will lead to some confusion and contradiction. As Obama famously didn’t say, the science is not settled. Statistics though can be sticky — once all the vulnerable in the herd have been culled or have natural immunity, then of course the vaccinated will be dying. Who else is left? How long ago were they vaccinated? How do we know they responded to the vaccine? Was it the same strain of Covid? Were they more careless and confident than the unvaccinated? What were their comorbidities? There is no such database to answer reliably. And if there was, why would you trust it? As you say, that would be the height of naïveté.

While I would prefer natural immunity to artificial, the former requires getting the disease—a genuine role of the dice for many adults over 50.

I place little hope in natural remedies. They are unproved, unregulated, unscrupulously marketed, and often inferior. It’s a word used for marketing.


Many are aware that aspirin-like chemicals can be derived from a particular tree bark. Most folks are unaware the three nastiest toxins known are naturally occurring – plutonium, botulinum toxin, and aflatoxin B1. And like man-made chemicals, they occur at toxic concentrations in locations accessible to humans.

I was happily vaccinated twice because I work in healthcare and have asthma and congenital heart disease. Just to single out one issue, the chance of myocarditis is manifold higher for Covid infection than for the vaccine. (Some exception for certain vaccines in men under 40.) Confounding is, no way of knowing whether infection and vaccination both occurred on the same short timeline. The thrombus stuff is more worrisome, but not so much that I’ve been motivated to research it.

I’m not social, but know a lot of people casually/professionally. Not a single one has suffered life-threatening vaccine side effects. Sure, they are out there. They exist for meningococcal vaccines, for flu shots, for tetanus as well. When entering the military you get about 20 vaccines, I’m told. Those people should be dropping like flies. Why aren’t they?

My previous post was rather gratuitous. I could’ve just asked: is the pharmaceutical industry, including vaccines and allied products, a net gain or harm to society? Put your money down.

In a super specialized society, most of us are not going to live off the grid, literally or figuratively. Some faith in institutions will help us sleep better at night, especially as we voters work in the background and in public discourse to correct and improve them. The True Crime special will not be written about pharmaceutical companies, but about governmental and corporate institutions forcing the vaccine on the unwilling. The media is already suppressing the stories of military reinstatements and back pay. Hopefully Americans will grow a longer memory. Keeping us divided and our wallets empty tends to shorten it.

Looking in the rearview mirror, the main consequence of Covid was the loss of public trust. If a Stephen King-esque superflu with a 50% mortality hits, we won’t trust the powers that be. We won’t trust science, the entity designed to exorcise that old demon, bias. For those who survive, worrying about vaccine side effects will seem like the good old days.

Not trying to change your mind about anything, just different perspective and experience. I don’t sense you would try, for example, to treat cancer by diet alone. As a famous surgeon’s receptionist said regarding nonstandard care: “I beg you to reconsider. The people who tried that are all dead.”

 

SwordOfTruth

Active member
Banned
I appreciate your views Icon. Much however is reliant on data and sadly the data is either kept from the public, or deliberately confounded such that direct conclusions can not be drawn or is purposely not collected at all.

The entire world has seen Excess Death numbers rise alarmingly since the roll-out of the "vaccines" but no government seems interested in investigating the root cause of this (for imo very obvious reasons). In the UK the gov't has now chosen a different way to calculate Excess Deaths which has lead to the numbers suddenly dropping. Faced with this kind of shenanigans what hope does the public have? Watch the great Dr John Campbell report this here:



The on-going claim that the "vaccines" saved X number of lives is and always will be subjective. It's impossible to know and the powers that be will of course seek to exaggerate this as much as possible. I refer you back to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trial papers. Just do the math from the numbers involved and it's astounding what the results were in terms of what actual change members of the placebo group and vaccine group had of catching Covid in the first place and what abysmally tiny difference the "vaccines" made in those trials. If you want I can put up the paper references here and show you the numbers.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
The on-going claim that the "vaccines" saved X number of lives is and always will be subjective. It's impossible to know and the powers that be will of course seek to exaggerate this as much as possible. I refer you back to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trial papers. Just do the math from the numbers involved and it's astounding what the results were in terms of what actual change members of the placebo group and vaccine group had of catching Covid in the first place and what abysmally tiny difference the "vaccines" made in those trials. If you want I can put up the paper references here and show you the numbers.
Stupidity.

It isn't difficult at all to know how many people vaccines have saved. Infections like Measles and Yellow Fever, etc have quite well know infection rates. You can look at the rates both before and after wide spread vaccinations have been administered and from there the math is pretty straight forward.

Covid is a different story, however. The COVID shot is NOT a vaccine and every disease that looked even a little like Covid was reported as Covid by the hospitals that were getting paid by the government by the reported case, not by confirmed cases, which is why the Flu went to zero in 2021 and 2022. In other words, there's no accounting for governmental stupidity but actual vaccines absolutely do work and have saved many millions of lives.
 

SwordOfTruth

Active member
Banned
Stupidity.

It isn't difficult at all to know how many people vaccines have saved. Infections like Measles and Yellow Fever, etc have quite well know infection rates. You can look at the rates both before and after wide spread vaccinations have been administered and from there the math is pretty straight forward.

The statement made was concerning the Covid treatments not traditional vaccines that we've had for years, hence the term vaccines was placed in quotation marks. Sorry if that wasn't clear.


Covid is a different story, however. The COVID shot is NOT a vaccine
I agree

and every disease that looked even a little like Covid was reported as Covid by the hospitals that were getting paid by the government by the reported case, not by confirmed cases, which is why the Flu went to zero in 2021 and 2022. In other words, there's no accounting for governmental stupidity but actual vaccines absolutely do work and have saved many millions of lives.

Also agree however when discussing true vaccines it is not imho possible to generalise as every vaccine has different characteristics, different ingredients, different levels of efficacy, different levels of serious side effects and so on. As with ALL types of medication or ailment treatment it is necessary for every person to research that specific medication, drug or vaccine to understand it as far as is humanly possible in order to make a reasonable informed decision. I've done this for some vaccines. For example I looked at the former Flu Vaccines and found that the prestigious Cochrane Institute had performed a systematic review of these and concluded that:

Injected influenza vaccines probably have a small protective effect against influenza and ILI (moderate-certainty evidence), as 71 people would need to be vaccinated to avoid one influenza case, and 29 would need to be vaccinated to avoid one case of ILI. Vaccination may have little or no appreciable effect on hospitalisations (low-certainty evidence) or number of working days lost.

Those numbers really don't inspire me to have any interest at all in this product. If car manufacturers sold vehicles on the basis that only 1 in 71 actually performed as we expect/hope then I'm sure none of us would buy cars from them.

Additionally the science seems to suggest that there are tangible problems/risks associated with getting repeated Flu vaccinations as per the following:

The Oxford Academic - Journal Of Infectious Diseases



"there is accumulating evidence suggesting that repeat seasonal vaccination may, in specific instances, result in reduced antibody responses and diminished vaccine effectiveness"

"The so-called “Canadian Problem” was one of the most notorious recent examples of a possible increase in risk of infection associated with prior vaccination. Skowronski et al [10, 11] reported that individuals who had been vaccinated in the 2008–2009 season, before the emergence of the 2009 swine flu pandemic, experienced higher rates of infection with the pandemic strain than individuals who were not vaccinated in the preceding year"

"Similar observations were reported during the 2014–2015 influenza season, where vaccine effectiveness was modestly reduced in individuals who had received the vaccine in the previous season and more substantially reduced in repeat vaccinees who had received both the current and prior season’s vaccines [12]."

"Repeat vaccination was also reported to interfere with vaccine effectiveness in a Japanese cohort during the 2016–2017 influenza season, where children immunized in the prior season were found to be more likely to develop influenza"



Also:

Repeated flu shots may blunt effectiveness


and:

Study adds more data on effects of consecutive-year flu shots



I also looked into the Shingles vaccine and more specifically into the actual chances that a person might first develop Shingles at all and second die from it. The chances of either (at least in the UK) were ridiculously small.

The moral of the story is research research research in order to be able to make any kind of informed decision for ourselves or our loved ones.
 

Clete

Truth Smacker
Silver Subscriber
The statement made was concerning the Covid treatments not traditional vaccines that we've had for years, hence the term vaccines was placed in quotation marks. Sorry if that wasn't clear.



I agree



Also agree however when discussing true vaccines it is not imho possible to generalise as every vaccine has different characteristics, different ingredients, different levels of efficacy, different levels of serious side effects and so on. As with ALL types of medication or ailment treatment it is necessary for every person to research that specific medication, drug or vaccine to understand it as far as is humanly possible in order to make a reasonable informed decision. I've done this for some vaccines. For example I looked at the former Flu Vaccines and found that the prestigious Cochrane Institute had performed a systematic review of these and concluded that:



Those numbers really don't inspire me to have any interest at all in this product. If car manufacturers sold vehicles on the basis that only 1 in 71 actually performed as we expect/hope then I'm sure none of us would buy cars from them.

Additionally the science seems to suggest that there are tangible problems/risks associated with getting repeated Flu vaccinations as per the following:

The Oxford Academic - Journal Of Infectious Diseases


"there is accumulating evidence suggesting that repeat seasonal vaccination may, in specific instances, result in reduced antibody responses and diminished vaccine effectiveness"

"The so-called “Canadian Problem” was one of the most notorious recent examples of a possible increase in risk of infection associated with prior vaccination. Skowronski et al [10, 11] reported that individuals who had been vaccinated in the 2008–2009 season, before the emergence of the 2009 swine flu pandemic, experienced higher rates of infection with the pandemic strain than individuals who were not vaccinated in the preceding year"

"Similar observations were reported during the 2014–2015 influenza season, where vaccine effectiveness was modestly reduced in individuals who had received the vaccine in the previous season and more substantially reduced in repeat vaccinees who had received both the current and prior season’s vaccines [12]."

"Repeat vaccination was also reported to interfere with vaccine effectiveness in a Japanese cohort during the 2016–2017 influenza season, where children immunized in the prior season were found to be more likely to develop influenza"



Also:

Repeated flu shots may blunt effectiveness


and:

Study adds more data on effects of consecutive-year flu shots



I also looked into the Shingles vaccine and more specifically into the actual chances that a person might first develop Shingles at all and second die from it. The chances of either (at least in the UK) were ridiculously small.

The moral of the story is research research research in order to be able to make any kind of informed decision for ourselves or our loved ones.
This is called moving the goal posts.

The post I responded to implied a distrust of vaccines in general, which is stupidity on parade. There are plenty of others around who, whether they actually distrust vaccines or they're just sloppy with the words they use, along with our being lied to for four years by the likes of "Dr." Fauci, are causing a massive number of people to refuse to vaccinate their children against such things as the Measles which WILL result in children dying, which is what makes your comments stupidity, along with the fact they are demonstrably false.
 

SwordOfTruth

Active member
Banned
This is called moving the goal posts.
No. No goal posts have been moved, all that's happened is that you tried to butt into a dialogue between 2 posters and didn't bother to read the context of the exchange or for that matter the actual quote of mine that you cited !

The post I responded to implied a distrust of vaccines in general, which is stupidity on parade.

No it didn't remotely imply or talk about vaccines in general. Here's the quote that YOU cited in your response:

"The on-going claim that the "vaccines" saved X number of lives is and always will be subjective. It's impossible to know and the powers that be will of course seek to exaggerate this as much as possible. I refer you back to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine trial papers. Just do the math from the numbers involved and it's astounding what the results were in terms of what actual change members of the placebo group and vaccine group had of catching Covid in the first place and what abysmally tiny difference the "vaccines" made in those trials. If you want I can put up the paper references here and show you the numbers."

I already highlighted the word "vaccines" in quotes is deliberate because the Covid treatments are not vaccines, without the quotes then you'd have a case but the quotes are there for that specific purpose. The paragraph talks about the Pfizer and Moderna vacine trial papers and talks about the placebo and vaccinated groups in that Covid vaccine trial.


There are plenty of others around who, whether they actually distrust vaccines or they're just sloppy with the words they use, along with our being lied to for four years by the likes of "Dr." Fauci, are causing a massive number of people to refuse to vaccinate their children against such things as the Measles which WILL result in children dying, which is what makes your comments stupidity, along with the fact they are demonstrably false.

So now you're making personal opinions on a specific vaccine / pathogen, that of Measles, something that hitherto hasn't been mentioned in my dialogue but by all means if you think you know something regarding this particular pathogen and this particular set of vaccines then I'm certainly game to talk about it. I wonder for example whether you are aware of:

1. How many cases of Measles there actually are per year ?
2. How many deaths are caused by those cases?
3. How many children are harmed by Measles vaccines each year?
4. How severe the harms are of those vaccinated cases?
5. How effective or not the Measles vaccines are at preventing the disease?
6. Whether or not being vaccinated still results in the vaxxed kids passing Measles on to others?

I would guess you haven't the foggiest clue of any of the above and are just spouting casual rhetoric.

These are however the kind of things one needs to know to determine whether or not giving your child a Measles shot is worth the risk.

So it goes for every individual vaccine. All the info is needed to make an informed decision.

We are all responsible for our own health
 
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