ECT 2P2P's ridiculous anti-semitic blindspot

I

Interplanner

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The 2P2P boys were so proud: they thought they had nailed the wide view of the Bible by pointing out that the 'millenium' so-called would give back to Israel 1000 years, which were the 'years the locust had devoured' or some such esoteric understanding of an OT prophecy not ever used by the apostles (almost all 2P2P 'prophecy' beliefs are NOT the ones expressed by the apostles.). In fact, after they read Rom 11's 'to whom does God owe anything?', they usually read this (literally) as 'God owes Israel and Judah 1000 years.'

Well, this is not shooting themselves in the foot but in the face.

From 72 AD to let's say 1900 you have 1828 years lost to the locust, so now the boys math really means that the so called millenium has to be at least 2828 years to be polite. But instead they stick to 1000 and just write off the 1828 as an insulting inevitable damage that doesn't really factor into prophecy, nor in to reality, anywhere. And besides, 1000 is such a nice round complete, pleasing number. And if you dare disagree with them, you are an unbeliever, satanic!
 
Tambora

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Interplanner said:
Rom 11's 'to whom does God owe anything?', they usually read this (literally) as 'God owes Israel and Judah
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Nah.
"Owing" implies "earned" or deserved.

Israel did not earn or deserve it.
The promises of GOD are dependent on GOD's faithfulness, not Israel's faithfulness.

But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. Eze 36:21-28


I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.” Ez. 36:21-34 KJV


Deuteronomy 9:5-6 KJV
(5) Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
(6) Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
Tambora said:
Nah.
"Owing" implies "earned" or deserved.

Israel did not earn or deserve it.
The promises of GOD are dependent on GOD's faithfulness, not Israel's faithfulness.

But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went. And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. Eze 36:21-28


I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you. And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen. Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.” Ez. 36:21-34 KJV


Deuteronomy 9:5-6 KJV
(5) Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
(6) Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.
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All that had its purpose back then--in prep for the Gospel, Acts 13:34. God does not owe a restoration to the land because grace and mercy for all mankind is now shown in his Son. There is no place in the NT where the excellence of truth in Christ is qualified by 'oh, except for Israel who also gets...' The facts are the opposite in Acts 26.
 
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I

Interplanner

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And none of these questions are answered by one passage, especially not one OT passage. We have to know what Christ and the apostles said because all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are in Him.

That is why, while Acts 13:32 is a great banner text, it is weak if not confirmed by so many other instances, expressed and implied.
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
As expected, the great STP avoided this one!

I did some more math; in addition to the 2828, there has to be some years for adverse things that happened in the 20th century.
 
Crucible

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~Galatians 3:26-29~
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

How more crystal clear can the Bible be of Spiritual Israel- that the New Covenant is not exclusive to the now lost lineage of the Jews?

The fact is that Dispensationalists are just sunk deep into a heresy that they can't get out of because they have built so much on top of it. Proper Christianity is lost on them, and so they'll resort to ramblings labeling people 'antisemitic' just like an atheist tool or call any theology 'work based salvation' if it requires being anything more than an atheist tool.

Nothing stacks up in their biblical interpretations, they cut everything out except Paul's writings and ignore even declarative truths among the other Apostles. MADists are quick to be bullies but they are really nothing but walking, talking contradictions.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

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Interplanner said:
As expected, the great STP avoided this one!

I did some more math; in addition to the 2828, there has to be some years for adverse things that happened in the 20th century.
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:doh:

Israel was "cast away" in the first century.

Count up the years in their history. It's 1000.

When will God restore them?
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Joel 1
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.


Joel 2
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.


Can IP the Great really not see who these pests are referring to?
Can he not see who drove them from their land? And how many years God will restore to them?
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
Joel 1
4 That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.


Joel 2
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.


Can IP the Great really not see who these pests are referring to?
Can he not see who drove them from their land? And how many years God will restore to them?
Click to expand...



Can you not see the insult to Jews by limiting it to 1000 years after the 1828+ years after the destruction of Jerusalem? I have never encountered such childish concoctions, but enjoy yourself.

Nothing surpasses 'every spiritual blessing in heaven' in Christ which we now enjoy. God is not trying to get separate blessings to every separate people on earth. You must not realize that in the Torah he said he had arrangements with other nations like he did with Israel back then.

All of that is over. God has now bound all mankind over to sin, so that he may have mercy on them all IN CHRIST. There are no separate packages of blessings outside this.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
Can you not see the insult to Jews by limiting it to 1000 years after the 1828+ years after the destruction of Jerusalem? I have never encountered such childish concoctions, but enjoy yourself.

Nothing surpasses 'every spiritual blessing in heaven' in Christ which we now enjoy. God is not trying to get separate blessings to every separate people on earth. You must not realize that in the Torah he said he had arrangements with other nations like he did with Israel back then.

All of that is over. God has now bound all mankind over to sin, so that he may have mercy on them all IN CHRIST. There are no separate packages of blessings outside this.
Click to expand...

You do not know what you are talking about.
 
Crucible

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There are no Jews, unless they are Christian. Because 'Jew' is not a bloodline.

The biblical lineage of Jews no longer exists, and therefore God has already fulfilled His promises to the Jews of old.

The best thing to do is to simply dismiss those Christians who obsess over physical Israel, because there is something fundamentally wrong with them as people. I really just don't get it- the whole of history never conceived their idea because it is utterly nonsense, but they want to make it about the evil, well, everybody up until their benevolent souls graced the Earth in the 19th Century.

It's hogwash- there's something wrong with their brains :chuckle:
 
I

Interplanner

Well-known member
SaulToPaul said:
:chuckle:

Learn about the casting away of Israel, and the dispensation of the grace of God.
It's even in one of your corrupted bibles.
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He was addressing the misconception of israel that said it was automatically "in." He was not saying there was a single thing for the ethne (neither that one nor any of them) in the future, but rather says that God does not truck with whole ethnes at a time. He only recognizes faith and condemns for unbelief.

That is why the quote of Isaiah is already fulfilled in Christ and in those who believe in him. (If you knew Heb 10:1-18 interp'ing the EXACT SAME ISAIAH passage, you would have known this). That's the "Israel" he is talking about there, and ch 2 and ch 9 and the end of Hebrews and Gal 6--the Israel of God who has faith. He always means all of those who have faith.

Your selected 1000 years of locusts is a disgrace and dishonor to Jews from 72 AD to approx 1900. But who cares? You certainly don't, you just want 'neat' Bible quips.
 
SaulToPaul 2

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
Interplanner said:
He was addressing the misconception of israel that said it was automatically "in." He was not saying there was a single thing for the ethne (neither that one nor any of them) in the future, but rather says that God does not truck with whole ethnes at a time. He only recognizes faith and condemns for unbelief.

That is why the quote of Isaiah is already fulfilled in Christ and in those who believe in him. (If you knew Heb 10:1-18 interp'ing the EXACT SAME ISAIAH passage, you would have known this). That's the "Israel" he is talking about there, and ch 2 and ch 9 and the end of Hebrews and Gal 6--the Israel of God who has faith. He always means all of those who have faith.

Your selected 1000 years of locusts is a disgrace and dishonor to Jews from 72 AD to approx 1900. But who cares? You certainly don't, you just want 'neat' Bible quips.
Click to expand...

Huh?
 
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