12 Dead, 10 Wounded after Paris terrorist attack

[Morpheus]

Where did I state that the United States is a Christian nation? Oh that's right. I didn't. We do have freedom of religion. We also have the freedom FROM having an official religion opposed upon us.

Feel free to argue that you would have the same freedom of speech and rights in the type of nations you are defending.

But you did say this:

Yes ... because they don't have to worry about Americans lopping off their heads or cutting their throats.

All I said is that they do feel threatened here because of their faith, and that their fears are realistic. I am neither defending Sharia law nor attacking it. If another country and culture wishes to limit religious freedom, that is their right. Our cultural bias shouldn't direct us to measure their culture by our standard; even more so when we can't even live by that standard ourselves.

The West has spent centuries imposing our values on others, frequently by force, with little regard to consequences. Then when those inevitable consequences occur we seem baffled by how "those people" could be the way they are. It's like beating a child his entire childhood, then wondering why he grew up to be violent and hate his parents.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

I'm sure most do.

It's only the extremists that cause problems.

A couple of months ago I joined with a group of Pakistani Christians in London who were protesting outside the Pakistan High Commission against the 'blasphemy' laws in Pakistan which are regularly used against Christians to get them thrown in prison or killed.

They had quite a few things to say about Islam and Muslims in general. None of it was good. The voice of Pakistani Christians who have been persecuted in their own country disagrees with you that it's only 'extremists' that cause problems.

 

[Alate_One]

A couple of months ago I joined with a group of Pakistani Christians in London who were protesting outside the Pakistan High Commission against the 'blasphemy' laws in Pakistan which are regularly used against Christians to get them thrown in prison or killed.

They had quite a few things to say about Islam and Muslims in general. None of it was good. The voice of Pakistani Christians who have been persecuted in their own country disagrees with you that it's only 'extremists' that cause problems.

That's because a few Muslim countries are worse than others in terms of religious tolerance. They're not all the same.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Yes ... because they don't have to worry about Americans lopping off their heads or cutting their throats.

http://www.splcenter.org/home/2012/spring/fbi-bias-crimes-against-muslims-remain-at-high-levels

http://m.ibtimes.com/are-anti-muslim-hate-crimes-rise-new-incidents-reported-across-us-1736412

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-29424165

2 of your links are calling this hate crimes " Islam-bashing propaganda, which initially took off in 2010, continued and even intensified." not seeing anyones head chopped off.

We do have free speech here.

Your last link isnt even about America, but about the uk. Where is your links about Americans chopping off their heads and cutting their throats?

The only thing i can find on a search where an american is cutting the throats of an adherant to islam, is where a father or brother islamist, does such to a daughter or sister or wife for "honor" :think: Oh and then the muslim coworker who recently killed a woman in his workplace...

 

[aikido7]

Why is any attempt to figure out the underlying reasons for this madness is immediately judged as "excusing" this vile behavior?

 

[Rusha]

But you did say this:All I said is that they do feel threatened here because of their faith, and that their fears are realistic. I am neither defending Sharia law nor attacking it. If another country and culture wishes to limit religious freedom, that is their right. Our cultural bias shouldn't direct us to measure their culture by our standard; even more so when we can't even live by that standard ourselves.

The West has spent centuries imposing our values on others, frequently by force, with little regard to consequences. Then when those inevitable consequences occur we seem baffled by how "those people" could be the way they are. It's like beating a child his entire childhood, then wondering why he grew up to be violent and hate his parents.

I don't think our laws and treatment of Muslims is comparable to their responses and treatment of non-Muslims.

 

[Rusha]

I did. The answer is that the question is moot while only illustrating my point.

You think America is the superior culture; Muslim's conclude that theirs is. zero sum.

Then let them stay in their Muslim countries and leave us alone.

Exactly ...

 

[rexlunae]

That's because a few Muslim countries are worse than others in terms of religious tolerance. They're not all the same.

I'm rather surprised Egypt is so far up the list. It's worse than Iraq.

 

[rexlunae]

Why is any attempt to figure out the underlying reasons for this madness is immediately judged as "excusing" this vile behavior?

Is that directed at anyone? Because I didn't see anyone do that. Not that I've read the whole thread...

 

[aikido7]

I'm rather surprised Egypt is so far up the list. It's worse than Iraq.

Bush's princely buddies and our allies in Saudi Arabia behead around two dozen people a month as their capital punishment. Plus lopping off hands and arms for "minor" crimes.

 

[aikido7]

Is that directed at anyone? Because I didn't see anyone do that. Not that I've read the whole thread...

It is a question that always comes up to me whenever contextual events and history are brought into the equation.

I don't know what other people actually think on this thread.

 

[bybee]

Well, your argument could also be applied to Americans on Islamic soil.

Not at all.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Your last link isnt even about America, but about the uk. Where is your links about Americans chopping off their heads and cutting their throats?

We don't usually chop people's heads off for anything over here these days either :chuckle:

But I do seem to recall last year two Muslim men chopping an off duty British soldiers head off in broad daylight on the streets of London... :think:

 

[lovemeorhateme]

That's because a few Muslim countries are worse than others in terms of religious tolerance. They're not all the same.

I'd love to know where these statistics get conjured up from. I would say that a 'moderate Muslim' is like a 'liberal Christian', neither are following the holy book which they claim to believe in.

 

[Angel4Truth]

I'd love to know where these statistics get conjured up from. I would say that a 'moderate Muslim' is like a 'liberal Christian', neither are following the holy book which they claim to believe in.

Amen, thats exactly what i say all the time!

 

[Daniel1611]

"Moderate" of any religion means "One who doesn't really believe in their religion." So the "moderate" Muslims are ok because they don't really believe in Islam. That's fine. But this sentiment is an admission that there is a problem with Islam.

 

[Morpheus]

We don't usually chop people's heads off for anything over here these days either :chuckle:

But I do seem to recall last year two Muslim men chopping an off duty British soldiers head off in broad daylight on the streets of London... :think:

No, but we do chain them up, put bags over their heads, strip them naked, shove things inside of them, drown them, freeze them to death, etc. And when they are dead we say it's justified. Then we have to consider instead of waiting for them to come here to slaughter them, since we have lots of planes and ships we just go to their homes and slaughter them wholesale. If we don't want to go to all that trouble, we just pay people in other countries to do our dirty work for us with weapons we supply.

At least we aren't barbaric.

 

[Morpheus]

We don't usually chop people's heads off for anything over here these days either :chuckle:

But I do seem to recall last year two Muslim men chopping an off duty British soldiers head off in broad daylight on the streets of London... :think:

"Moderate" of any religion means "One who doesn't really believe in their religion." So the "moderate" Muslims are ok because they don't really believe in Islam. That's fine. But this sentiment is an admission that there is a problem with Islam.

From the perspective of an an extremist anyone who loves thy neighbor is a moderate. In 1st Century Israel the Pharisees considered Christians not only "liberal", they tracked them down as heretics.

 

[quip]

Not at all.

Why not?

 

[Selaphiel]

"Moderate" of any religion means "One who doesn't really believe in their religion." So the "moderate" Muslims are ok because they don't really believe in Islam. That's fine. But this sentiment is an admission that there is a problem with Islam.

That is a rather simplistic and uniformed statement. As if religion could be reduced to "following a book", whatever that is supposed to mean. Moderate interpretations of a religion is more about recognizing that there are parts of religious traditions, like anything else, that needs reflection and critical thinking.
Your definition of real belief or real religion basically makes it impossible for Christianity to even be considered a real religion. Christianity does not follow the book, as you put it, it is built on a rather novel reading of Old Testament scriptures. Go read the gospel of Matthew, stop at every Old Testament passage he invokes, then go back to that passage and read it in its context, it is anything but a literal interpretation. The same can be said about the epistles, Acts and Revelation.