Cross Reference

There is no such thing as loving the world and having Christ, at the same time. He won't compromise Himself with you or anyone else. Learn that and live.

You are in trouble. Repent while you still can.

Get back to reading and studying and stop spewing non-sense!!! OK?

Ah, OK. Thank you!

The CD has to be in the computer for you to be able to see the film. I just discovered that. If you eject the CD there is no film. I do not know why the program does not copy the film from the CD to the hard drive as it did with the books.

Good morning brother!

I am so thankful that the Lord placed you in my life and I mean it. The way you think challenges me, and most of all NOT to give up, no matter what the dissenters opine.

I am so happy you have found a place to gather together with the brethren. I'm still trying to find one. The places I've gone to all I hear is feathers falling from the roof, gold coming down. Funny thing it never falls on everybody, me being one of those who the gold and fathers do not fall on. Maybe mine are invisible and that's why I can't see them --- I know you know I'm being sarcastic.

I also have difficult in listening, I am much better these days, though, at least I take a breather, before I respond. All I want to do is talk about the Lord. That gets me in trouble sometimes.

The film is in the CD that came with the book. When I inserted the CD and it loaded on the computer, in the Home page of the Libronix there are two links -- one an interview with his only daughter and the other the film about his life.

And it is true what I have read already that he always told his students to read with a dictionary because 'I'll check that word later' will never happen (I am paraphrasing what I understood him to be saying.) Well, I do need a dictionary while reading what he writes. No so much because I do not know the word, but because of how he is using the 'definition' of the word. I need to know all the definitions to understand what he is saying in some things. I can see this is going to be a wonderful challenge for me.

Blessings,
Victoria

P.S. Thank you for letting me know, by the way you were going back and forth with the dissenters, that the way I was explaining myself was understandable. Sometimes, I wonder if I am not explaining myself correctly. But like I always say, the Lord knows my heart and He will correct my heart when He sees that my heart is not in the right place.

G'mornin my Sister!

So nice to read your kind words first thing this day!

I believe of all the people I have read about, Chambers image comes across as the most Christlike for one in his daily life. I want to be like that. His admonition to give up our rights to ourselves seems so easy to do when alone and thinking of Jesus but, oh the challenge when our worldly activities start up and our everyday 'business' concerns place their demands upon our attention. How 'shallow' I feel when I "miss the mark" and leave Jesus out by forgetting to let him in. I know you must as well. In this I can see the 'why' of a great deal of scripture placed before us that we need to learn to practice and why fellowship with saints is so important. "Love one another as I have loved you" are His words so much find difficult. We do so need saints, those who understand what the issues are, in our lives, don't we? In all this has Chambers been a tremendous help by making me see the 'details' of this.

I recently began attending a little Independent Baptist church with intention of just making friends with those the Lord would place before me, in His way they would be unmistakable. It has been quite an experience and most enjoyable because I am learning to listen__a challenge for me to say the least because I love to talk about the Lord and, like you intimated, most Christians aren't on the same page. I laugh because you are going to be faced with much the same challenge pretty soon. If you aren't already there, you soon will be 'pushed' over the ledge for the need to witness even more of His love because of Jesus' input to your heart by Chambers to those who you believe will want to know as you do__and I hope they do. My advise, that good folk will listen, is to learn to see the picture [vision--you will receive a greater one] in a most perfect way and then explain the picture and not the author [of any book] except between confidants__own Jesus, own the vision. Let Him own you.

Til another time in Him, go make it a great day!

Lov'in His Precious Name,

Ken

PS I didn't know there was a film of his life. Where can I view it? Is it online?

I will definitely share some of my discoveries with you. I am so thankful that you directed me to him.

I was just watching the film about his life. When the Lord touches you for a job, He really touches you. You cannot get away from Him. Can you?

I didn't realize he was so young when he died. His wife also must have had some type of touch in her life to take shorthand notes about his teachings.

Our God is so awesome!

I just got Oswald Chambers today. Haven't had a chance to look at it yet. Will let you know how much I am enjoying it. I'm still amazed at Biblical Ethics.

Keep up the good work.

You read authors like Andrew Murray and Oswald Chambers and you expect others to understand at first glance, without taking the time to really read and understand, what you are saying?

No way, brother. Give yourself a little more credit, CR. No wonder some cannot understand where you are coming from sometimes.

Lift up your head and keep up the good work the Lord has established for you to walk in them since you've been saved by Him.

Blessings,
Victoria

We ALL do things sometimes CR, that we are not happy with them, even the ones who think they don’t, don’t bash yourself for it. You did not commit the unpardonable sin, you know.

You do not have to apologize to me for feeling frustrated, it happens to me also. That’s why I copy and paste before answering. Sometimes I too throw my hands up in the air and want to go through the screen screaming. I am happy you are still here. Don’t give up. That’s what the enemy wants. He will use whatever means at his disposal to accomplish what he wants – for you not to express yourself the way you do and let others be blessed by your words. Even though some will not tell you, even the ones who are not kind to you, they get blessed also. Trust me, they think about what you say, that’s why they come with such vociferous negative comments. They don’t know it yet, they will. All we can do is ask the Lord to fix us (when we are wrong) and for them to see what the Lord has so graciously given us the privilege to see. (Hope I am making sense here.)

Now, mind you, IF I think you did something wrong, I’ll be the first one to be on your back, even if in a loving way. You know that right? And I expect the same from you. If you see I said something that is incorrect, I expect you to correct me, especially in a loving way. I might not agree but then we’ll go back and forth until we do.

What kind words to say to me that you have considered me a timely counter balance to it all. What a privilege that the Lord has chosen me to come your way and you to come mine. The Lord is soooooo good to us. Isn’t He?

Please, do not leave any board or forum unless YOU know in your heart that the Lord has told you so. Keep on preaching. Keep on cajoling. Let their feathers be shaken. It’s good to have someone like you that we have to stop and think, I mean really think, to understand what you are saying. It happens to me sometimes, and then I say, ‘oh, I got it.’ Don’t forget that if we were face-to-face we would have all the nuances of our expressions and many things would be understood without need for explanations, not so on paper. The one reading has to stop and think before responding. If they are searching the Lord will make them understand.

And why do you think you have been asked to re-participate? Hmm. Le’s see. Because we need our feathers shaken and for that we need special people who know how to shake our comforting feathers. One of the things being that you have OC’s vocabulary in you and most of them do not.

Worry not about what their responses will be. Make the threads and let the Lord bless those who He wants to be blessed by them. If one, just one, gets it, you have done your job. Now, that does not mean that they will come back and tell you that they get it. Ignore their negative responses and keep on writing what the Lord has placed in your heart. If you concentrate on their agreeing with you, you will not be able to give them the feathers shaking treatment.

Yes, there are people out there who are searching, such as myself, but many are afraid, because they are not sure, to answer and to say something, especially, if for example, they fall in one thread where you are being hammered for what you are explaining. Think about it. Someone just accepted the Lord, they do not have any ideas not even which Bible to read, and for some reason they come into this forum and the first thing they see is you being bashed. Would you dare respond to anything? I wouldn’t.

Don’t worry about their responses. Worry about what the Lord wants you to posit. If someone respond and you feel that “throwing arms up in the air” feeling, walk away for a moment, copy and paste response, write your response, then come back, and then respond in the forum.

Many Christians are afraid to be ridiculed and that’s why they do not go beyond saying, ‘good morning.’ One of the reasons being that they do not place their nose on the Bible to study it and to understand it. It takes prayer, time, effort, frustration, etc., especially to humble ourselves to what the Word is saying and not what we think the Word is saying.

Again, I also thank God for you, My Brother. What a privilege it has been to at least give a small sand pebble of help and He making it a front beach property in your heart. God bless you for your faithfulness as He is still strengthening me and you AND He will NEVER, EVER give up on those who keep on coming back to Him, like you do. Don’t ever let doubt come into your heart. Yes, you can stumble…me too, but we are to get up, shake the dust and pick up the baton where it fell off our hands. He protects the baton because it is His. We just pick it up and continue on until the race is over.

Blessings,
Victoria

All is well, CR. God is so good.

Thank you for letting me know that you will not be here for a while. That is kind of you. That tells me the kind of heart you have.

Some of these brothers and sisters, I choose to believe that they are saved, however, confused, because, like you say, they have made up their minds already about something. That is why I do not get into their games. I simply keep on giving them what the Lord places in my heart.

Oh, do I ask the Lord that I do not become 'prideful' in my responses. I try to say things the way I would say them to the Lord. I think might keep me from getting in trouble with them. I hope -

You don't know how many times I delete the first response to some of these comments.

I usually copy and paste first into MS Word or whatever program I have open at that time and then I can write the first response and then delete the response, take a deep breath, start again, then I read my response out loud and then paste it in the forum, and read my responses one more time by previewing the post and then I post the message.

And then do you know what happens? Oh, no, that's not what I wanted to say. Click that Edit button fast, before anyone respond to the post. Oh, Thank you Jesus that they did not read fast enough! I caught myself before they caught me. Otherwise, I would be dead by now. Good is so good to me. -

I believe that they do not read, I mean really read, what you say. I think they just see CR and they say, 'whatever' and they lose the richness of what you are saying.

Remember they do not have Oswald Chambers in their vocabulary, otherwise, many of the responses would be totally different. Don't take it personally. They really do not know.

I am happy I made you laugh with the 10x before I understand. We all need to laugh at ourselves and need other to laugh with us, not at us. I know you laughed with me and that is good.

I also enjoy immensely the KJV. It is my favored. I do read others just because and others, such as The Message, I don't even bother with, it is "The Mess."

Blessings,
Victoria

I am sorry you feel this way, but I was considering the same thing.

Some days I feel like it is a total waste of time, but then, I converse with someone like yourself, and learn something I did not know before that takes me to a deeper direction that I would not have had the privilege to be told about, if you had not been there.

I think what I will do is be more selective of the posts I respond to before making that final decision.

I will miss you, if you decide to go, but know that I have gotten so much from you I cannot tell you how much. Whatever decision you make, I know it will be the right decision for you, and a loss for this forum, that I can attest with no doubt at all.

And yes, I do use Logos, and they will help me with the OC stuff when I get it. I can't wait to get it. I am learning so much from the Biblical Ethics I can't tell you how much. I have to sometimes read the same thing more than 10x before the brain say, "oh, I got it."

Please, let me know what your final decision is and thank you for talking to me about it so that I will not be thinking that something happened to you and not be able to find out if everything is OK with you.

Blessings,
Victoria

Thank you. I will definitely check it out.

Just ordered for my Logos Software: "Biblical Ethics"; "The Moral Foundation of Life", and "My Utmost for His Highest".

I can see what you mean by "challenging but richer."

I will, thank you.

Oh, I got it.

I need to create an outline for me to not forget. See, what you just said, e.g, that "he believed in Jesus but it was for his own purposes and esteem" I know, but for some reason, I do not get the "whole" picture at one time. That's why I need an outline for myself.

This conversation has been very enlightening for me. Thank you one more time.

Re The Disciples__in this, consider them to still be in the world trying to understand what it means to not be part of it, as Jesus prayed about in John 17:

Yes, that I understand, and sometimes have a tendency to believe that everybody else understands that also and that’s why I do not make mention of it, but will make sure I, well, I’ll at least try, to remember it.

We must keep in mind that everything Jesus did in the matter of calling and choosing His Disciples, He did so before salvation and new birth was made possible by His death and resurrection.

Yes, the key “before salvation.”

With that established in our thinking, what transpired could only be a leading up to it whereby the indwelling [John 20:22] would make it all complete__sorta like them running with a promise they had no idea what is was and wouldn’t understand anyway.

Hmmm. I didn’t think about this.

Jesus didn’t go into detail except to say this to them: “Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.” John 14:17 (KJV) By this we can see Jesus speaking of Himself being with them but not in them.

Yes, small little details that I have a tendency of passing over it, because I know them. I need to remember to talk about the little details also. Thank you.

So we might ask, were any of them saved? By faith, yes, I believe so.

Me too.

They believed on Him however, had any of them died they would not have gone to heaven. Why? Because Jesus had not yet made peace with God on their behalf per Rom. 5:1. We can safely say they satisfied the first half of that verse but certainly not the last half.

Yes, had they died before the Cross. Thank you again.

With regard to Judas, I don’t believe he qualified for either half.

I think I understand, but could you talk a little bit more about this, please.

He was certainly not righteous therefore not justified/blameless. He died in that state.

He wasn’t righteous because he died before the Cross. Hmmm. Thank you one more time.

Now here is where we both might get understanding that will satisfy our longing for it in this matter. Did not God say this: “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.” Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) And God brings “evil” [mischief] about when it is convenient for His purposes, always for things set in Himself.

Absolutely yes. I believe God uses anything and everything to accomplish what He has established since before the foundation of the world.

Question: Was not Judas evil?

Yes. However, I can only come to this conclusion because I can read the whole story in the Bible. (What I mean is, I wasn’t there, so if were not for the Bible, I couldn’t draw this conclusion. I’m thinking of having to have at least two witnesses –- one how I was told about it and then the Bible that I can make sure that what I am hearing is true. Sorry if I am not making sense here.

I’ll stop here and let you ponder it__and when pondering don’t forget Judas was also part of the 70 that went out from Jesus to perform those miracles we read of.

That’s where “my” problem is. Because he was included in the 70 that went out from Jesus to perform the miracles we read about, is that I think that at the *beginning* at the *calling* of the 12, Judas, at that moment, believed. He was already a disciple. I am not sure if he was a disciple with the intention of doing harm or if he honestly was a disciple at the beginning. I believe that at the beginning he was a *true* disciple, just like the other 69 disciples. I do not see any difference in any of the disciples until later.

So, he was a *disciple* as the other 69 disciples, so I think that at this point he is a believer.

I am not thinking as we think of a believer now, after the Cross. I'm just saying Judas believed in what Jesus was saying at that moment.

Then the Lord called him to be an *apostle*, so I think that at this point he is still a believer.

Then, he showed his true colors and betrayed the Lord. Yes, I do understand that he would do that. I’m just trying to get my thoughts together.

I have in the background of my mind that Judas was going to betray the Lord anyway, that he was the vessel by which that was going to happen.

I mean could I say that, even though Judas was evil, and God knew that, but meanwhile Judas believed in Jesus and what he was hearing from Jesus? My point being because the Bible says, “he became” a traitor, which from my perspective at the *beginning* he was not a traitor to begin with.

Could I say that to become a traitor I first have to be a part of what I am going to betray? Could I say that to be a traitor I have to be a believer first of that which I am betraying? Don’t know if I am making sense here.

That observation can easily start a whole discussion dealing with modern day preachers.

Please, don’t get me going on the modern day preachers! -):

I am delighted in all of this with you, Victoria. It is a time of refreshing for me. So nice to discuss about the things of God, to share thinking and maybe be adjusted while desiring to be accurate for another’s blessing.

Me too. It is hard to find someone that you can ‘converse’ with without being attacked and chewed to pieces.

Thank you Lov’in Jesus, Ken

No, thank you.

Sorry, if I do not make sense in some of my *thinking*. Thank you for your patience.