You must be saved to believe the Gospel !

[beloved57]

I know this surprises people, but its true, a lost person cannot and will not understand and believe the Gospel when it comes to Salvation and Conversion.

The truth of the matter is while men are in a unregenerate lost state, the Gospel is hidden from them resulting in unbelief. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Its plainly stated in the passage "our gospel it is hid to them that are lost" !

So the counter to that is, our Gospel is not hid to the save. By saved I mean two things #1 Those saved by the Eternal Purpose of God and Blood of Christ, and #2 Saved by the Regenerating Power of the Spirit. See only those who have been regenerated have been liberated from Spiritual darkness and blindness by the god of this world, as long as we are unregenerate our minds remain blinded by the god of this world.

Also how can the Gospel be the Gospel of ones Salvation Eph 1:13 if the person is in a lost state, that's a contradiction.

Paul had written earlier that its the saved, to whom the preaching of the Cross is the power of God 1 Cor 1:18

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Notice, not unto the lost is it the power of God, but unto us which are saved !

Notice also saved here in this verse 1 Cor 1:18 is in the present tense, they are in a saved state, and they are being saved, converted, because its also a passive voice.

This confirms that the Gospel can only be a converting word, if one is saved already, and no longer in a lost state.

 

[JudgeRightly]

According to your doctrine:

a lost person cannot and will not understand and believe the Gospel when it comes to Salvation and Conversion.

Because their Creator has planned for them to be that way.

The truth of the matter is while men are in a unregenerate lost state, the Gospel is hidden from them resulting in unbelief.

Because their Creator has planned for them to be that way.

Its plainly stated in the passage "our gospel it is hid to them that are lost" !

So the counter to that is, our Gospel is not hid to the save.

Because the saved's Creator has planned for them to be able to see it.

as long as we are unregenerate our minds remain blinded by the god of this world.

Because the unregenerate's Creator has planned for them to be that way.

 

[Leatherneck]

I believe you have it backwards. You must believe the gospel to be saved.

 

[Nanja]

I know this surprises people, but its true, a lost person cannot and will not understand and believe the Gospel when it comes to Salvation and Conversion.

The truth of the matter is while men are in a unregenerate lost state, the Gospel is hidden from them resulting in unbelief. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Its plainly stated in the passage "our gospel it is hid to them that are lost" !

So the counter to that is, our Gospel is not hid to the save. By saved I mean two things #1 Those saved by the Eternal Purpose of God and Blood of Christ, and #2 Saved by the Regenerating Power of the Spirit. See only those who have been regenerated have been liberated from Spiritual darkness and blindness by the god of this world, as long as we are unregenerate our minds remain blinded by the god of this world.

Also how can the Gospel be the Gospel of ones Salvation Eph 1:13 if the person is in a lost state, that's a contradiction.

Paul dad written earlier that its the saved, to whom the preaching of the Cross is the power of God 1 Cor 1:18


For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Notice, not unto the lost is it the power of God, but unto us which are saved !

Notice also saved here in this verse 1 Cor 1:18 is in the present tense, they are in a saved state, and they are being saved, converted, because its also a passive voice.

This confirms that the Gospel can only be a converting word, if one is saved already, and no longer in a lost state.

Amen Brother ! The Gospel reveals to those already Saved / Regenerated by the Power of the Holy Spirit,
that they have the Righteousness of God charged to them, who are specifically Believing by the Power of God.

 

[OZOS]

God's word clearly says the opposite, but then again, you hate God's word...

"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Eph 1:13

Paul gives us the order, and it's so simple, only an idiot can miss it.

1. Hear the word of truth, the gospel.
2. Trust what you hear and believe it.
3. Sealed (receive) the Holy Spirit.

 

[Derf]

I know this surprises people, but its true, a lost person cannot and will not understand and believe the Gospel when it comes to Salvation and Conversion.

The truth of the matter is while men are in a unregenerate lost state, the Gospel is hidden from them resulting in unbelief. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Its plainly stated in the passage "our gospel it is hid to them that are lost" !

So the counter to that is, our Gospel is not hid to the save. By saved I mean two things #1 Those saved by the Eternal Purpose of God and Blood of Christ, and #2 Saved by the Regenerating Power of the Spirit. See only those who have been regenerated have been liberated from Spiritual darkness and blindness by the god of this world, as long as we are unregenerate our minds remain blinded by the god of this world.

Also how can the Gospel be the Gospel of ones Salvation Eph 1:13 if the person is in a lost state, that's a contradiction.

Paul dad written earlier that its the saved, to whom the preaching of the Cross is the power of God 1 Cor 1:18


For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Notice, not unto the lost is it the power of God, but unto us which are saved !

Notice also saved here in this verse 1 Cor 1:18 is in the present tense, they are in a saved state, and they are being saved, converted, because its also a passive voice.

This confirms that the Gospel can only be a converting word, if one is saved already, and no longer in a lost state.

So what you are saying, b57, is that Jesus didn't come to seek and to save that which was lost, because to be saved requires that you believe on the Lord Jesus, as Paul told the Philipian jailor. You have absolutely no "good news" to offer the world, and you would have Paul tell his jailor there is no hope for him, since he isn't already saved.

 

[beloved57]

I believe you have it backwards. You must believe the gospel to be saved.

You must not have paid attention.

 

[beloved57]

So what you are saying, b57, is that Jesus didn't come to seek and to save that which was lost, because to be saved requires that you believe on the Lord Jesus, as Paul told the Philipian jailor. You have absolutely no "good news" to offer the world, and you would have Paul tell his jailor there is no hope for him, since he isn't already saved.

You are not paying attention.

 

[OZOS]

This confirms that the Gospel can only be a converting word, if one is saved already, and no longer in a lost state.

Converted to what?

You've just confirmed that your gospel is a perverting word.

 

[Derf]

You are not paying attention.

Nor should I.

 

[Idolater]

God's word clearly says the opposite, but then again, you hate God's word...

"In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise" Eph 1:13

Paul gives us the order, and it's so simple, only an idiot can miss it.

1. Hear the word of truth, the gospel.
2. Trust what you hear and believe it.
3. Sealed (receive) the Holy Spirit.

Since your ecclesiology is null, as we've discussed, you of course failed to notice that Paul here merely describes the initiation of each Ephesian Christian into Church life, which means Sunday Mass. Paul says they trusted in the Lord, which means that they decided to convert /be received into the Church. They were sealed with the Spirit during the sacrament of confirmation. Now, they celebrate the Eucharist, partaking of the altar, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the eternal sacrifice of the Mass: their "salvation", which is, like so many other things in the Christian life and in the Scripture, both temporal and eternal.

You all think salvation is just eternal. That's just because you're suffering from starvation. You need to go to Mass. You need to convert, do like the Ephesians did, Get sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise: convert, get confirmed, and start partaking of the Lord's altar.

It's what Christians have been doing since the time of Paul, and with Paul's approval.

 

[beloved57]

Converted to what?

You've just confirmed that your gospel is a perverting word.

Converted to the truth.

 

[beloved57]

Nor should I.

Okay that's fine.

 

[Leatherneck]

You must not have paid attention.

I paid attention that is how I know you got it backwards.

 

[Leatherneck]

Since your ecclesiology is null, as we've discussed, you of course failed to notice that Paul here merely describes the initiation of each Ephesian Christian into Church life, which means Sunday Mass. Paul says they trusted in the Lord, which means that they decided to convert /be received into the Church. They were sealed with the Spirit during the sacrament of confirmation. Now, they celebrate the Eucharist, partaking of the altar, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, the eternal sacrifice of the Mass: their "salvation", which is, like so many other things in the Christian life and in the Scripture, both temporal and eternal.

You all think salvation is just eternal. That's just because you're suffering from starvation. You need to go to Mass. You need to convert, do like the Ephesians did, Get sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise: convert, get confirmed, and start partaking of the Lord's altar.

It's what Christians have been doing since the time of Paul, and with Paul's approval.

Should Christians pray to Mary and worship the pope ? I think not.

 

[Idolater]

Should Christians pray to Mary

And to any of your dead kin who you believe are in heaven to hear your prayer, which is some form of the general petition "Pray for us". We only have objective confirmation of those recognized as Saints, but upon purification, all believers, and this includes far too many Protestants, will enter. Just because we're not detecting multiple bona fide miracles attributal to them doesn't mean that your dead kin are not in heaven. If they believed in Jesus, then there's every reason to think they're there, and that they can hear your prayer to them:

Pray for us.

and worship the pope ? I think not.

Nobody worships the Pope just because we recognize that the Apostle Peter's office was and still is a real Church office. You Protties are basically denying that the President of the United States is a valid office, just because you don't like the Whitehouse's policy on some matter. In other words, it doesn't matter if you don't recognize the office of President of the United States, for example, as a parallel. It doesn't nullify the office just because you don't recognize it. And recognizing the office of the President, does not constitute worshiping the current president, nor the office.

We don't worship Francis, we don't worship Peter, we don't worship the papacy or the Holy See or Rome, and we don't worship Mary.

 

[Leatherneck]

And to any of your dead kin who you believe are in heaven to hear your prayer, which is some form of the general petition "Pray for us". We only have objective confirmation of those recognized as Saints, but upon purification, all believers, and this includes far too many Protestants, will enter. Just because we're not detecting multiple bona fide miracles attributal to them doesn't mean that your dead kin are not in heaven. If they believed in Jesus, then there's every reason to think they're there, and that they can hear your prayer to them:

Pray for us.

Nobody worships the Pope just because we recognize that the Apostle Peter's office was and still is a real Church office. You Protties are basically denying that the President of the United States is a valid office, just because you don't like the Whitehouse's policy on some matter. In other words, it doesn't matter if you don't recognize the office of President of the United States, for example, as a parallel. It doesn't nullify the office just because you don't recognize it. And recognizing the office of the President, does not constitute worshiping the current president, nor the office.

We don't worship Francis, we don't worship Peter, we don't worship the papacy or the Holy See or Rome, and we don't worship Mary.

Veneration is a word game Catholics use as a substitute for worshipping Mary.I don’t nor do any Christians pray to their dead relatives. God said don’t bow before statues( idols) Roman Catholics say it’s OK I will stay with God’s word . I don’t recognize the office of a pope because it is unscriptural and elevates a sinful man to god like status.

 

[beloved57]

I paid attention that is how I know you got it backwards.

I dont think so, its accurate !

 

[Clete]

You must be saved to believe the Gospel !​

This is simply assassin stupidity.

How is it possible for anyone to allow such obviously self defeating nonsense to escape their brains intact?

I suppose Paul had it backwards when he flatly stated the exact opposite!

Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”​

Peter also was backward it seems...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.​

The bible doesn't teach that those who recieve the Holy Spirit will repent and it doesn't say that those who are saved will call upon the Lord! It says precisely the opposite of that!

Calvinism is not rational, it is not biblical and it is not Christianity. It has nothing at all to do with the truth and makes a mockery of justice and even common sense. It is simply a lie from start to finish and those who believe it are lost in a quagmire of confusion that approaches psychosis.

Clete

 

[beloved57]

A person doesnt get saved because they believe, as many falsely teach, but a person believes because he or she is already saved. As many as had been ordained/destined to eternal life believed Acts 13:48

And when the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified (praised and gave thanks for) the Word of God; and as many as were destined (appointed and ordained) to eternal life believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Jesus as the Christ and their Savior).AMPC

This message made the Gentiles glad, and they praised what they had heard about the Lord. Everyone who had been chosen for eternal life then put their faith in the Lord. CEV