YHWH: For You are our Father... Our Kinsman-Redeemer (ga'al)
- Thread starter beameup
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beameup
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Thus saith 'YHWH the King of Israel', AND his Kinsman-Redeemer גָּאַל
'YHWH of hosts' (angels);
I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. - Isaiah 44:6
Kinsman-Redeemer (ga'al) must be a relative of those redeemed.
Who can save/redeem the Jews except one of their own?
'YHWH of hosts' (angels);
I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. - Isaiah 44:6
Kinsman-Redeemer (ga'al) must be a relative of those redeemed.
Who can save/redeem the Jews except one of their own?
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And thus must be a man to redeem mankind.
I also see a correlation with the serpent on the pole as also being a prophetic typology of why YHWH needed to become man.
Serpents caused the bite/sting of death to the Israelites.
So it was the thing that caused the sting of death --- the serpent --- to be lifted up on the pole to heal the people from that sting of death.
The sting of death is also called sin.
The sin (sting of death) was caused by Adam (man).
So the thing that caused it --- man --- had to be lifted up on a pole to take away that sting of death.
serpent caused
took serpent to heal
man caused
took man to heal
I wonder what translation you use. I see this:
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts:
I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God
"His" in "His redeemer" refers to Israel.
This is a very monotheistic verse. It is amazing how you manage to twist it to meet your ideological needs.
Actually the OP claims to know about "the two powers", and spouts that premise in other places where it suits the ideological need, but here even that is apparently ignored to suit the ideological need as you nicely put it. However something just is not right with this passage, and it appears that the Masoretes more likely inserted the Tetragrammaton into this text; and if so it was probably to lend support to the monotheistic viewpoint, but as you see it only ends up being used in the Christian world, (by some but not all), to support the ridiculous notion that the Father became a man and died. The Septuagint version says nothing of the sort in this case, (which is much more likely what the Apostolic writers would have had to quote from if they had quoted this passage), and in fact the passage does not even say what we find written in the Revelation account that is generally assumed to be from certain select passages such as this one. The statement at the end of "I am the first, and I am the last" actually uses μετα ταυτα, (meta tauta, rendered as "hereafter" instead of "the last"). Going back to the Hebrew, (which employs H314 'acharown), one may see that the Septuagint is actually a better rendering in this case also.
Isaiah 44:6 LXX-Septuagint
6 ουτως λεγει ο θεος ο βασιλευς του ισραηλ ο ρυσαμενος αυτον θεος σαβαωθ εγω πρωτος και εγω μετα ταυτα πλην εμου ουκ εστιν θεος
Isaiah 44:6 LXX-Septuagint - Brenton English Translation
6 Thus saith God the King of Israel, and the God of hosts that delivered him; I am the first, and I am hereafter: beside me there is no God.
beameup
New member
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I'm assuming that you know the Hebrew and understand the role of goel - (refer to the book of Ruth).
גָּאַל gâʼal, gaw-al'; a primitive root, to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), i.e. to be the next of kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.)
So, with that in mind, "who" and "how" are the Jewish people "redeeming"? I fail to see any "redemption" going on. Perhaps you can help me out on this?
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According to current Jewish theology, it is
the Jews that are the focus of Isaish 53:
1) Jews are being punished by God
2) Jewish souls are being made an offering for sin
3) Jewish souls see travail
4) Jews are "justifying many"
5) Jews are "baring their iniquities"?
6) Jewish souls are being poured out unto death
7) Jews are bearing the sins of many
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The verb means to redeem. It may refer to the act of a kinsman redeeming land. But it does not mean "kinsman", no matter how many times you claim that.
“For you are our Father, though Abraham does not know us, and Israel does not acknowledge us; you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name. O Lord, why do you make us wander from your ways and harden our heart, so that we fear you not? Return for the sake of your servants, the tribes of your heritage. Your holy people held possession for a little while; our adversaries have trampled down your sanctuary. We have become like those over whom you have never ruled, like those who are not called by your name.”
**Isaiah *63:16-19 *ESV
http://bible.com/59/isa.63.16-19.esv
Abraham does not know them in the sense that these Jews of the tribulation period were unbelievers until this point in which the Messiah returns because they now recognize the true faith of Abraham.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
**Isaiah *63:16-19 *ESV
http://bible.com/59/isa.63.16-19.esv
Abraham does not know them in the sense that these Jews of the tribulation period were unbelievers until this point in which the Messiah returns because they now recognize the true faith of Abraham.
Sent from my iPhone using TOL
beameup
New member
The Ga'al could be a redeemer, as was the case of Abraham when he rescued Lot, and the case of Ruth when she was redeemed by Boaz.
A Ga'al could also be an "avenger of blood". At any rate, a Ga'al was a close-relative of the one being rescued, avenged, or redeemed.
It seems that the Jews "have blinders on" when it comes to understanding the Tanakh, as such concepts are rather easily figured out by a Goy with little effort.
גָּאַל gâʼal, gaw-al': a primitive root, to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), i.e. to be the next-of-kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.)
A Ga'al could also be an "avenger of blood". At any rate, a Ga'al was a close-relative of the one being rescued, avenged, or redeemed.
It seems that the Jews "have blinders on" when it comes to understanding the Tanakh, as such concepts are rather easily figured out by a Goy with little effort.
גָּאַל gâʼal, gaw-al': a primitive root, to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), i.e. to be the next-of-kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.)
beameup
New member
Is this simply a failure on your part to look into Mosaic Law or failure to consult a reliable lexicon?
I personally would not want myself to look uneducated on a public forum.
גָּאַל gâʼal, gaw-al': a primitive root, to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), i.e. to be the next-of-kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.). See Abraham's rescue of Lot, Ruth's redemption by Boaz for examples of Kinsman-Redeemer.
beameup
New member
Thus says the LORD, your Kinsman-Redeemer גָּאַל [ga'al],
and the one who formed you from the womb [Egypt],
I, the LORD, AM the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth all alone - Isaiah 44:24
גָּאַל gâʼal, gaw-al': a primitive root, to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), i.e. to be the next-of-kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.). See Abraham's rescue of Lot, Ruth's redemption by Boaz for examples of Kinsman-Redeemer.
and the one who formed you from the womb [Egypt],
I, the LORD, AM the maker of all things,
Stretching out the heavens by Myself
And spreading out the earth all alone - Isaiah 44:24
גָּאַל gâʼal, gaw-al': a primitive root, to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), i.e. to be the next-of-kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.). See Abraham's rescue of Lot, Ruth's redemption by Boaz for examples of Kinsman-Redeemer.
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So why do you persist in doing exactly that?
You have not given your source for this. Link, please?
Land redemption by a kinsman is one type of redemption.
I checked on line. This is your source.
You took the first definition, and ignored the others. A form of lying.
Have a nice day.
You took the first definition, and ignored the others. A form of lying.
Have a nice day.
keypurr
Well-known member
Your adding words that are not there. Kinsman is not in any of my translations for this verse
beameup
New member
From the link you provided. It is you that is misleading, or confused.
גָּאַל
1 act as kinsman, do the part of next of kin
None could be so ignorant as to not even know or understand their own Holy Tanakh.
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keypurr
Well-known member
Still adding words: When do you find the word kinsman?
Isaiah 54:5
(ASV) For thy Maker is thy husband; Jehovah of hosts is his name: and the Holy One of Israel is thy Redeemer; the God of the whole earth shall he be called.
(BBE) For your Maker is your husband; the Lord of armies is his name: and the Holy One of Israel is he who takes up your cause; he will be named the God of all the earth.
(Bishops) For he that made thee shalbe thy Lorde and husbande (whose name is the Lord of hoastes) and thy redeemer shalbe euen the holy one of Israel, the Lorde of the whole worlde.
(CEV) The LORD All-Powerful, the Holy God of Israel, rules all the earth. He is your Creator and husband, and he will rescue you.
(DRB) For he that made thee shall rule over thee, the Lord of hosts is his name: and thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, shall be called the God of all the earth.
(ESV) For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
(Geneva) For hee that made thee, is thine husband (whose Name is the Lorde of hostes) and thy redeemer the Holy one of Israel, shall be called the God of the whole world.
(GNB) Your Creator will be like a husband to you--- the LORD Almighty is his name. The holy God of Israel will save you--- he is the ruler of all the world.
(GW) Your husband is your maker. His name is the LORD of Armies. Your defender is the Holy One of Israel. He is called the God of the whole earth.
(KJV) For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
(NAS77) "For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the LORD of hosts; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, Who is called the God of all the earth.
(NASB) "For your husband is your Maker, Whose name is the LORD of hosts; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, Who is called the God of all the earth.
(NET.) For your husband is the one who made you —
the LORD who commands armies is his name.
He is your protector, the Holy One of Israel.
He is called "God of the entire earth."
(NIrV) I made you. I am now your husband. My name is The LORD Who Rules Over All. I am the Holy One of Israel. I have set you free. I am the God of the whole earth.
(NIV) For your Maker is your husband— the LORD Almighty is his name— the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.
(NKJV) For your Maker is your husband, The LORD of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.
(NRSV) For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
(NRSVA) For your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is his name; the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
(TNIV) For your Maker is your husband— the LORD Almighty is his name— the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer; he is called the God of all the earth.
(YLT) For thy Maker is thy husband, Jehovah of Hosts is His name, And thy Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel, `God of all the earth,' He is called.
Rth 4:6 And the kinsman[ga'al] said, I cannot redeem[ga'al] it for myself, lest I mar mine own inheritance: redeem[ga'al] thou my right to thyself; for I cannot redeem[ga'al] it.
Isa 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer[ga'al] the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
beameup
New member
גָּאַל - ga'al - H1350
1. to act as kinsman, do the part of next of kin, act as kinsman-redeemer
For I know that my redeemer [גָּאַל] liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. - Job 19:25-27 -- The oldest book in the Bible
None could be so ignorant as to not even know or understand their own Holy Tanakh.