Will Only A Few Human Beings Be Saved? No.

[JAGG]

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."__The Lord Jesus in Matthew 7:13-14 (NIV)

I hold the view that there will be, NOT a few, but rather untold billions of people that will be born into the stream of history as the millenniums roll forward, and that these untold billions will become Christians.

Here is one argument to support my position:
(I have more arguments coming)

Human history ends with the number of Christians so numerous that no human being could count them.

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:

Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.
Rev. 7:9-10

Obviously we must interpret Matthew 7:13-14 (only a few find it) in such a way that it does not create a contradiction with Revelation 7:9-10's "a great multitude that no one could count."

What say you?

 

[Lilstu]

I hold the view that there will be, NOT a few, but rather untold billions of people that will be born into the stream of history as the millenniums roll forward, and that these untold billions will become Christians.

Here is one argument to support my position:
(I have more arguments coming)

Human history ends with the number of Christians so numerous that no human being could count them.





Obviously we must interpret Matthew 7:13-14 (only a few find it) in such a way that it does not create a contradiction with Revelation 7:9-10's "a great multitude that no one could count."

What say you?

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,

“Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.

It doesn't say that this multitude has been saved....does it?
It just says that they realize the source of salvation.
Perhaps this multitude realize they missed out and are crying out for a mulligan...another chance.

 

[jamie]

What say you?

Everyone will have an equal opportunity for salvation but only a few will be chosen during this age. The rest will have to wait until the Last Day.

 

[JAGG]

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; 10 and they cry out with a loud voice, saying,

“Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.

It doesn't say that this multitude has been saved....does it?
It just says that they realize the source of salvation.
Perhaps this multitude realize they missed out and are crying out for a mulligan...another chance.

Lilstu,

♦ Thanks for stopping by to read my OP and for your comment.

♦ I don't think the context of Revelation chapter 7 will permit your interpretation. Here is why:

♦ Notice what is said about those in the white robes that form the multitude so numerous that no one could count them:

"Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

I answered, “Sir, you know.”

And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Therefore, “they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne
will shelter them with his presence.

‘Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,’[a]
nor any scorching heat.

For the Lamb at the center of the throne
will be their shepherd;
‘he will lead them to springs of living water.’
‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.’”
Rev. 7:13-17

♦ The parts I bolded red clearly demonstrate that the multitude in white robes were genuine born again Christians that were so numerous that no one could count them.

♦ This alone: "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" solidly demonstrates that this uncountable multitude, were genuine born again Christians and therefore "only a few find it" cannot be correctly applied to all of human history. It must be given a local interpretation applicable to just that period of time in which the Lord Jesus was speaking those words. This local-only interpretation of Mt. 7:13-14's "only a few find it" is harmonious with "a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language" of Rev. chapter 7

♦ To insist that the "only a few find it" of Mt. 7 must be interpreted to accurately describe all of human history is to FORCE a contradiction between Mt. 7 and Rev . 7

 

[patrick jane]

Everyone will have an equal opportunity for salvation but only a few will be chosen during this age. The rest will have to wait until the Last Day.

Interesting perspective

 

[Lilstu]

Luke 12:32 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

32 Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom.

 

[Lilstu]

Lilstu,

♦ Thanks for stopping by to read my OP and for your comment.

♦ I don't think the context of Revelation chapter 7 will permit your interpretation. Here is why:

♦ Notice what is said about those in the white robes that form the multitude so numerous that no one could count them:



♦ The parts I bolded red clearly demonstrate that the multitude in white robes were genuine born again Christians that were so numerous that no one could count them.

♦ This alone: "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" solidly demonstrates that this uncountable multitude, were genuine born again Christians and therefore "only a few find it" cannot be correctly applied to all of human history. It must be given a local interpretation applicable to just that period of time in which the Lord Jesus was speaking those words. This local-only interpretation of Mt. 7:13-14's "only a few find it" is harmonious with "a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language" of Rev. chapter 7

♦ To insist that the "only a few find it" of Mt. 7 must be interpreted to accurately describe all of human history is to FORCE a contradiction between Mt. 7 and Rev . 7

Sometimes people play "dress up" but they are phonies.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Anyone can dress up in a white robe and still be filthy inside.

 

[JAGG]

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and
many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
__ The Lord Jesus in Matthew 7:13-14 (NIV)

My interpretation of those verses is as follows: The Lord was speaking ONLY about how the situation appeared to be in the 1st century, and therefore he was making a moral observation about the people of the 1st century, and NOT making a predictive observation, that is, he was not predicting that "only a few find it" will characterize the history of the Christian Church. Such a prediction would constitute a legitimate contradiction of the Biblical texts. Why so?

Because there will be untold billions of people that will be born into the stream of history as the millenniums roll forward, and these untold billions will become Christians.


Here are the arguments that support my position:



(1) God promised Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as he stars in the heavens and the grains of sand on the seashore. This means there will be billions and billions of Christians on the Earth, as the millenniums roll along, and before Time ends and The Final State begins.

"I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed
Genesis 26:4


^"The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore."
Genesis 22:15-17

"And so from this one man, [Abraham] and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore
Hebrews 11:12







(2) The Apostle Paul makes it clear that Abraham is the spiritual faith-father of all New Testament Christians, and therefore the promises of God to Abraham that he would make his descendants as numerous as the stars of the Heavens and the grains of sand on the seashore, is a promise to the Christian Church.

Sayeth the Apostle Paul:

"Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be [U guaranteed to all [/U] Abraham’s offspring —not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”
He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed— the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
Romans 4:1617






(3) History ends with the number of Christians so numerous that no human could count them.


"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
Rev. 7:9-10






Summation of the argument:

♦ Matthew 7:13-14 cannot be interpreted as characterizing all of human history. It must be interpreted as applied ONLY to the situation that the Lord Jesus observed in the 1st century, otherwise you will have created a direct contradiction in the Biblical texts.

♦ "Only a few find it" must be interpreted in the light of Genesis 26:4 and Genesis 22:15-17 and Hebrews 11:12 and Rev. 7:9-10

♦ There will be billions and billions of Christians that will be born into the stream of human history before time ends, and they will be to numerous to coun seeing as how their numbers will be like the grains of sand on the seashore. There are untold billions times billions of grains of sand on the seashore.

 

[Lilstu]

John 10:16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

The two Billion supposed Christians are numerous flocks.
Jesus didn't make a mistake. The real 'little flock" is hidden amongst all these counterfeits.

 

[JAGG]

Sometimes people play "dress up" but they are phonies.

Your statement above cannot be applied to the uncountable numbers in Rev. chapter 7 because the Bible says "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." This statement settles your raised-question regarding their spiritual condition. This uncountable multitude had "washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Case closed.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

This verse is irrelevant. It cannot be applied to the uncountable multitudes because the Bible says "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Anyone can dress up in a white robe and still be filthy inside.

Not when the Bible says "they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

It is not arguable that the uncountable multitudes of Revelation 7 are genuine born again Christians and that they demonstrate beyond any doubt that the "only a few find it" of Mt. 7 cannot be interpreted as predictive of the future of the Christian Church, but rather it must be interpreted as a local observation describing the situation in the 1st century.

 

[JAGG]

John 10:16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.

The two Billion supposed Christians are numerous flocks.
Jesus didn't make a mistake. The real 'little flock" is hidden amongst all these counterfeits.

Nothing in your statements up there are addressing the arguments in my OP and post 8.

So far the arguments in the OP and in post 8, remain unrefuted.

It goes without saying that Jesus did not make a mistake. It is not an issue of making a mistake, rather it is an issue of how to properly interpret the "only a few find it" of Mt. 7

"Only a few find it" must be interpreted in the light of Genesis 26:4 and Genesis 22:15-17 and Hebrews 11:12 and Rev. 7:9-10 --- as I demonstrated in my post 8

 

[JAGG]

Luke 12:32 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

32 Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom.

It is not possible to interpret "little flock" as predictive of the future numbers of Christians who are so numerous that no man can count them (they're "uncountable") --- moreover their numbers are said to be as the grains of sand on the seashore and they are to be as numerous as the stars in the sky.

"Only a few find it" and "little flock" must be interpreted in the light of Genesis 26:4 and Genesis 22:15-17 and Hebrews 11:12 and Rev. 7:9-10 These verses demand that we conclude that the final number of born again Christians will number in the billions times billions, just as the grains of sand on the seashore. Picture humans trying to count the grains of sand on, say, just 100 miles of beach --- not to even mention the grains of sand on the entire earth's seashore.

The truth is that the Lord Jesus who was indirectly the author of Genesis 26:4 and Genesis 22:15-17 and Hebrews 11:12 and Rev. 7:9-10 ---- taught all that these verses teach about the billions upon billions of Christians coming into world before time ends and the Final State begins, and Jesus said (indirectly) that their numbers would be like the grains of sand on the seashore and like the stars in the sky.

You ought to be glad about that. Why would you want the Christian Church to be small and dinky?

The Lord Jesus richly deserves a HUGE ENORMOUS church and He is going to have one before this human project is finished.

Thank the Lord for that.

 

[jamie]

I hold the view that there will be, NOT a few, but rather untold billions of people that will be born into the stream of history as the millenniums roll forward, and that these untold billions will become Christians.

Many are called but few are chosen. (Jesus)

Jesus is referring to the kingdom of God. Since Jesus first preached the gospel of the kingdom of God many have heard his gospel but have chosen other gospels and ignored or rejected Jesus' true gospel. This is even evident on TOL. So many different beliefs and opinions and ideas.

A few will be ready for the first resurrection but most people will not be ready and will be in the second resurrection. Everyone will have an opportunity for salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Isaiah 30:20-21 And though the Lord gives you the bread of adversity and the water of affliction, yet your teachers will not be moved into a corner anymore, but your eyes shall see your teachers.

Your ears shall hear a word behind you, saying, “This is the way, walk in it” whenever you turn to the right hand or whenever you turn to the left.​

 

[theophilus]

I hold the view that there will be, NOT a few, but rather untold billions of people that will be born into the stream of history as the millenniums roll forward, and that these untold billions will become Christians.

Here is one argument to support my position:
(I have more arguments coming)

Human history ends with the number of Christians so numerous that no human being could count them.

Obviously we must interpret Matthew 7:13-14 (only a few find it) in such a way that it does not create a contradiction with Revelation 7:9-10's "a great multitude that no one could count."

What say you?

"I believe there will be more in Heaven than in hell. If anyone asks me why I
think so, I answer, because Christ, in everything, is to "have the preeminence", and I
cannot conceive how He could have the preeminence if there are to be more in the
dominions of Satan than in Paradise. Moreover, I have never read that there is to be in
hell a great multitude, which no man could number." ~C. H. Spurgeon

http://rediscoveringthebible.com/SpurgeonDefenceOfCalvinism.pdf


**

 

[JAGG]

Hello Jamie,

Thanks for your comment.

Many are called but few are chosen. (Jesus)

My position is this:

♦ The 3 arguments in my post 8 have got to be faced and dealt with. They can't just be ignored as if they were never posted.

♦ Post 8 with its Arguments (1) (2) (3) has defeated the historically predictive interpretation of:
~ Luke 12:32's "little flock"
~ Mt. 7:14's "only a few find it"
~ Mt. 22:14's "many are called but few are chosen"

♦ Here are those 3 arguments:

(1) God promised Abraham that his descendants would be as numerous as he stars in the heavens and the grains of sand on the seashore. This means there will be billions and billions of Christians on the Earth, as the millenniums roll along, and before Time ends and The Final State begins.

"I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and will give them all these lands, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed
Genesis 26:4


"The angel of the Lord called to Abraham from heaven a second time and said, “I swear by myself, declares the Lord, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore."
Genesis 22:15-17

"And so from this one man, [Abraham] and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore
Hebrews 11:12




(2) The Apostle Paul makes it clear that Abraham is the spiritual faith-father of all New Testament Christians, and therefore the promises of God to Abraham that he would make his descendants as numerous as the stars of the Heavens and the grains of sand on the seashore, is a promise to the Christian Church.

Sayeth the Apostle Paul:

"Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be [U guaranteed to all [/U] Abraham’s offspring —not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed— the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
Romans 4:1617





(3) History ends with the number of Christians so numerous that no human could count them.

"After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: “Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”
Rev. 7:9-10




Summation of the argument:

♦ These are NOT predictive of the future numbers of the worldwide/historywide Christendom:
~ Luke 12:32's "little flock"
~ Mt. 7:14's "only a few find it"
~ Mt. 22:14's "many are called but few are chosen" . . . .

. . . . and they cannot be interpreted as characterizing all of human history. They must be interpreted as applied ONLY to the situation that the Lord Jesus observed in the 1st century, otherwise you will have created a direct contradiction in the Biblical texts.


♦ Again, theses are not predictive and they . . . .
~ Luke 12:32's "little flock"
~ Mt. 7:14's "only a few find it"
~ Mt. 22:14's "many are called but few are chosen" . . . .

. . . .must be interpreted in light of Genesis 26:4 and Genesis 22:15-17 and Hebrews 11:12 and Rev. 7:9-10

♦ There will be billions and billions of Christians that will be born into the stream of human history before time ends, and they will be to numerous to count seeing as how their numbers will be like the grains of sand on the seashore and like the stars in the heavens. There are untold billions times billions of grains of sand on the seashore and therefore:
~ Luke 12:32's "little flock"
~ Mt. 7:14's "only a few find it"
~ Mt. 22:14's "many are called but few are chosen" . . . must be interpreted ONLY as describing the conditions that the Lord Jesus observed in the 1st century, and NOT interpreted as predictive of the future of worldwide/historywide Christendom.

 

[JAGG]

"I believe there will be more in Heaven than in hell. If anyone asks me why I
think so, I answer, because Christ, in everything, is to "have the preeminence", and I
cannot conceive how He could have the preeminence if there are to be more in the
dominions of Satan than in Paradise. Moreover, I have never read that there is to be in
hell a great multitude, which no man could number." ~C. H. Spurgeon

http://rediscoveringthebible.com/SpurgeonDefenceOfCalvinism.pdf


**

Theophilus, I think that's an excellent quote that makes a very important point about the Preeminence of the Lord Jesus. I find it inconceivable to believe that the Lord Jesus would end up even in second place, with Satan ending up in the first and victorious position in the war between good and evil. But it gets even worse than Christ in "second place" because when . . .

~ Luke 12:32's "little flock"
~ Mt. 7:14's "only a few find it"
~ Mt. 22:14's "many are called but few are chosen" . . . .

. . . are given a predictive interpretation, this means that the Lord Jesus is totally defeated in the historical war between Evil and Good, and that his Christian Church ends up small and dinky in comparison to the Numbers Of Satan. An absurd notion.

Btw, its always good to hear from the great Spurgeon.

 

[jamie]

♦ The 3 arguments in my post 8 have got to be faced and dealt with. They can't just be ignored as if they were never posted.

♦ Post 8 with its Arguments (1) (2) (3) has defeated the historically predictive interpretation of:
~ Luke 12:32's "little flock"
~ Mt. 7:14's "only a few find it"
~ Mt. 22:14's "many are called but few are chosen"

These three scriptures apply to God's kingdom. This does not preclude the eventual salvation of billions of people descended from
Abraham.

It looks to me like you're seeing a contradiction where there isn't one.

 

[Crucible]

Christianity is still the largest religion in the world with roughly 2 billion people. That would be something to the extent of 20% of the world population.

It is taught in scripture that there will be many who call upon his name, and Jesus will say to depart from him- he never knew them. Those are the people who believed they were the elect, but it was really a broken faith that they deluded themselves with while they went on through life a reprobate.

That's going to be a vast majority of that 2 billion headcount on Christianity- in the Bible, when it is stated that the gate is narrow, the context is abundantly clear. It's not something one can get over with semantics or reinterpretation.

 

[Robert Pate]

I hold the view that there will be, NOT a few, but rather untold billions of people that will be born into the stream of history as the millenniums roll forward, and that these untold billions will become Christians.

Here is one argument to support my position:
(I have more arguments coming)

Human history ends with the number of Christians so numerous that no human being could count them.





Obviously we must interpret Matthew 7:13-14 (only a few find it) in such a way that it does not create a contradiction with Revelation 7:9-10's "a great multitude that no one could count."

What say you?

I have found that only a few on this Forum believe and have faith in Christ and his Gospel.

If you take all of the Christians down through the years then you will have a great multitude.

 

[JAGG]

These three scriptures apply to God's kingdom. This does not
preclude the eventual salvation of billions of people descended
from Abraham.

It looks to me like you're seeing a contradiction where there isn't one.

Jamie,

Do you make a distinction between the:

(1)Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven

and the

(2) Christian Church?

I get the strong impression, from reading the New Testament, that the Kingdom Of God/Kingdom of Heaven and the Christian Church are, for all practical purposes, the same thing. For example the Kingdom Parables of the Mustard Seed and the Yeast clearly describe the future of the Christian Church and the texts say this:

He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”
He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds of flour until it worked all through the dough.” Matthew 13:31-33

Then add:

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. *And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. *I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be[d] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[e] loosed in heaven.” *Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah. Matthew 16:17-20

In one breath the Lord Jesus calls His earthly project the church and in the next breath He calls it the kingdom of heaven.

Therefore I conclude that the Christian Church and the Kingdom Of Heaven are the same thing.