Why does Calvin's God hate reprobates?

musterion

musterion

Well-known member
There's always a lot of of back and forth about what Calvinism says God did with reprobates. As far as I can tell there's only two possible explanations why He did it.

(a) He looked down the "tunnel of time" to see who would reject the Gospel. He decided to reject them in advance based on their future rejection of Christ.

(b) He just randomly picked people to 'pass over' for election, choosing to not give them the ability to believe and leaving them without any possibility of salvation.

Explanation (a) creates an insoluble paradox.

Explanation (b) makes Him out to be an unjust judge because He still condemns reprobates for not believing the Gospel as if they had the ability to do so...even though He decreed they cannot believe (that's what being non-elect amounts to).

If there is a reasonable alternative to these, post it. "Shut up, it's a mystery," "deep things of God" and similar evasions and smokescreens are unacceptable.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
musterion said:
There's always a lot of of back and forth about what Calvinism says God did with reprobates. As far as I can tell there's only two possible explanations why He did it.

(a) He looked down the "tunnel of time" to see who would reject the Gospel. He decided to reject them in advance based on their future rejection of Christ.

(b) He just randomly picked people to 'pass over' for election, choosing to not give them the ability to believe and leaving them without any possibility of salvation.

Explanation (a) creates an insoluble paradox.

Explanation (b) makes Him out to be an unjust judge because He still condemns reprobates for not believing the Gospel as if they had the ability to do so...even though He decreed they cannot believe (that's what being non-elect amounts to).

If there is a reasonable alternative to these, post it. "Shut up, it's a mystery," "deep things of God" and similar evasions and smokescreens are unacceptable.
Click to expand...

Please explain why choice "A" creates a paradox? Perhaps, it's too early and my mind isn't fully up to par?
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
Please explain why choice "A" creates a paradox? Perhaps, it's too early and my mind isn't fully up to par?
Click to expand...

Some Calvinists insist (1) God did not use any degree of human choice in predetermining who would be saved and who would not -- meaning He did not "look through time" to decide who to save based on who He foreknew would believe. He just picked Ins and Outs for reasons known only to Him.

However, I've heard other self-described Calvinists say (2) God DID use foreknowledge of who would and wouldn't believe because (I'm guessing here) they can't stomach the truly horrible idea that God simply chose not to save a lot of people He otherwise could have saved.

But while position (2) avoids the arbitrary, capricious God created by (1), it automatically creates the chicken-egg paradox of which came first: God's predestination of individuals unto unbelief, or their yet-future unbelief which He used to determine their reprobation?
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
How can anyone possibly have faith in the God of Calvinism, I can't.
Click to expand...

Have wondered that many times over the years. Only answer I can come up with is, it gives (the illusion of) an absolute certainty that the entirety of one's life is completely in God's control. Not the way right minded Bible believers know that it is...way more than that. If you believe in God's sovereignty the way hard-core Reformed define it, every single atom of existence is preplanned to do exactly what it does or does not do. That's why they'll insist there really is no such thing as free will.

I guess the fatalism of it gives one a sense of peace because it allows them to shut off part of the mind once you accept that NOTHING happens that God did not directly decree to happen.

Two problems with that, though.

First, many a Reformed person lives his/her life as if what he/she chooses to do will impact the rest of their lives and the lives of those around them. Which is true...but it doesn't really square with the fatalism that forms the foundation of what they say they believe. You know the many mental gymnastics they do to get around that, though.

Second, and worse, it lays at God's feet all responsibility for human sin and evil. They can't have that point both ways, try as they might.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
TulipBee said:
Jesus and Calvin's God are are the same
Click to expand...

No.

The Lord Jesus Christ does not lie. Nor does His Father, the God of the Bible.

The "Jesus" and the "God" of Calvinism lie about several things...who can be saved, why they're lost, for whom Christ's blood was shed, who can believe the saving Gospel, who can't, why they can't...many things, you cult member.

(I hear the lame hoofbeats of a stubborn mule approaching...here he comes, the MAD friend of cults with his stirring cloud of verbose nonsense and a hearty "Hi Ho Jordan, away!")
 
R

Robert Pate

Well-known member
Banned
musterion said:
Have wondered that many times over the years. Only answer I can come up with is, it gives (the illusion of) an absolute certainty that the entirety of one's life is completely in God's control. Not the way right minded Bible believers know that it is...way more than that. If you believe in God's sovereignty the way hard-core Reformed define it, every single atom of existence is preplanned to do exactly what it does or does not do. That's why they'll insist there really is no such thing as free will.

I guess the fatalism of it gives one a sense of peace because it allows them to shut off part of the mind once you accept that NOTHING happens that God did not directly decree to happen.

Two problems with that, though.

First, many a Reformed person lives his/her life as if what he/she chooses to do will impact the rest of their lives and the lives of those around them. Which is true...but it doesn't really square with the fatalism that forms the foundation of what they say they believe. You know the many mental gymnastics they do to get around that, though.

Second, and worse, it lays at God's feet all responsibility for human sin and evil. They can't have that point both ways, try as they might.
Click to expand...

I think that you are right. They blame God for all of their sins and mistakes. God made me do it.
 
musterion

musterion

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
I think that you are right. They blame God for all of their sins and mistakes. God made me do it.
Click to expand...

Yup. That's how I was trained to think when I was infected by the Calvinist view of God...everything that continued to be wrong with me HAD to be the decree of God, ESPECIALLY since I was also told the Adamic nature had been eradicated.
 
Nanja

Nanja

Well-known member
Robert Pate said:
My mind is at enmity with your Calvinist God that predestinates people to hell before they are born.
Click to expand...


Your mind is blinded to the Truth of the Gospel.

It's hid from you according to God's Will and Purpose 2 Cor 4:3-4!

~~~~
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top