What is Flynn guilty of?

ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
CNN says the Logan Act and false statements.

The Logan Act makes it a crime for a private citizen to communicate with a foreign government without proper authority in an attempt to influence the actions of the foreign government.*

From: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...s/did-flynn-break-law-pate-opinion/index.html

Where is the proof Flynn tried to influence the actions in his meetings with the Russian ambassador?

From the same article:

A false statement can be a lie, or an attempt to cover something up. The critical issue is whether the person intended to mislead a government official about an important matter. Did Flynn make a false statement? Based on what's been reported, it appears that he did. At some point, it appears that Flynn told Vice President Pence that his discussions with the Russian ambassador did not involve the recently imposed sanctions.

That statement was made to a government official, concerned a matter within the jurisdiction of the federal government, and now appears to be false. The only questions are whether Flynn intended to lie or just made an honest mistake, and whether any false statement he may have made was intended to impair the government's investigation of his discussions with the Russians.

Where is the proof he did this?

Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app
 
patrick jane

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
ClimateSanity said:
CNN says the Logan Act and false statements.

The Logan Act makes it a crime for a private citizen to communicate with a foreign government without proper authority in an attempt to influence the actions of the foreign government.*

From: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...s/did-flynn-break-law-pate-opinion/index.html

Where is the proof Flynn tried to influence the actions in his meetings with the Russian ambassador?

From the same article:

A false statement can be a lie, or an attempt to cover something up. The critical issue is whether the person intended to mislead a government official about an important matter. Did Flynn make a false statement? Based on what's been reported, it appears that he did. At some point, it appears that Flynn told Vice President Pence that his discussions with the Russian ambassador did not involve the recently imposed sanctions.

That statement was made to a government official, concerned a matter within the jurisdiction of the federal government, and now appears to be false. The only questions are whether Flynn intended to lie or just made an honest mistake, and whether any false statement he may have made was intended to impair the government's investigation of his discussions with the Russians.

Where is the proof he did this?

Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app
Click to expand...
The leftist libtards are wrong to say "look, Flynn is asking for immunity, must be something big." Flynn only wants immunity because demoncrats are on a witch hunt. Flynn broke no laws and did nothing wrong.
 
R

rexlunae

New member
From what's on the record and undisputed? Something like this:

1. Flynn is a retired lieutenant general, meaning he has a commission and is considered an officer of the United States. The emmoluments clause of the US Constitution requires that if any officer of the United States is to receive payments from a foreign government, it must first be approved by Congress. Flynn acknowledges that he received payments from the Turkish government (he registered as a lobbyist after being fired by Trump), and he also was paid by RT, which is considered to be an arm of the Russian government.

Most likely, the worst of that would be losing part or all of his retirement benefits.
https://web-beta.archive.org/web/*/...ry/summary_emoluments_clause_restrictions.pdf

However, the Foreign Agents Registration Act requires that any agent acting as a paid representative of a foreign government in a "political or quasi-political" capacity disclose that relationship. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act

The FARA applies to all foreign agents, regardless of which foreign government it is, and is not a part of being a US government employee or officer. It applies to any America person or organization, and agents are required to register within 10 days of agreeing to perform the work, and before any work begin. But Flynn didn't register until last month, so it certainly looks like he was in violation while acting as NSC advisor with a security clearance. That alone is a crime that can carry a $10k fine and a five-year prison term.

That's all on the record and undisputed. The question that I have is, if you are working as an illegally undisclosed foreign agent in a capacity with a top-level security clearance and threat profile doesn't it begin to look like espionage?
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
rexlunae said:
From what's on the record and undisputed? Something like this:

1. Flynn is a retired lieutenant general, meaning he has a commission and is considered an officer of the United States. The emmoluments clause of the US Constitution requires that if any officer of the United States is to receive payments from a foreign government, it must first be approved by Congress. Flynn acknowledges that he received payments from the Turkish government (he registered as a lobbyist after being fired by Trump), and he also was paid by RT, which is considered to be an arm of the Russian government.

Most likely, the worst if that would be losing part or all of his retirement benefits.
https://web-beta.archive.org/web/*/...ry/summary_emoluments_clause_restrictions.pdf

However, the Foreign Agents Registration Act requires that any agent acting as a paid representative of a foreign government in a "political or quasi-political" capacity disclose that relationship. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Act

The FARA applies to all foreign agents, regardless of which foreign government it is, and is not a part of being a US government employee or officer. It applies to any America person or organization, and agents are required to register within 10 days of agreeing to perform the work, and before any work begin. But Flynn didn't register until last month, so it certainly looks like he was in violation while acting as NSC advisor with a security clearance. That alone is a crime that can carry a $10k fine and a five-year prison term.

That's all on the record and undisputed. The question that I have is, if you are working as an illegally undisclosed foreign agent in a capacity with a top-level security clearance and threat profile doesn't it begin to look like espionage?
Click to expand...
Why do you say he was acting as a foreign agent?

Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app
 
ClimateSanity

ClimateSanity

New member
rexlunae said:
Because he was being paid by a foreign government. At least two of them, actually. They don't just give him money for nothing.
Click to expand...
Perhaps he was ignorant of that statute.


From the NYT:

"Mr. Flynn, a retired Army lieutenant general, registered as a lobbyist last year but did not file papers with the Justice Department registering as a foreign agent, providing a fuller understanding of his role, until Tuesday. While he did not work directly for the Turkish government, the firm that hired him, Inovo, is owned by a Turkish-American businessman with links to leaders in Ankara and asked him to work on an issue important to the government."

He did not directly work for the Turkish government. That's a very good reason for Flynn to not consider himself a foreign agent, especially if he is ignorant on the subject.

Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app
 
R

rexlunae

New member
ClimateSanity said:
Perhaps he was ignorant of that statute.
Click to expand...

As a lieutenant general? That's hard to believe. And I'm not sure that's a good enough cover to save him regardless.


ClimateSanity said:
From the NYT:

"Mr. Flynn, a retired Army lieutenant general, registered as a lobbyist last year but did not file papers with the Justice Department registering as a foreign agent, providing a fuller understanding of his role, until Tuesday. While he did not work directly for the Turkish government, the firm that hired him, Inovo, is owned by a Turkish-American businessman with links to leaders in Ankara and asked him to work on an issue important to the government."

He did not directly work for the Turkish government. That's a very good reason for Flynn to not consider himself a foreign agent, especially if he is ignorant on the subject.
Click to expand...

The FARA isn't limited to foreign governments. It includes organizations controlled by governments, political parties, and companies, especially when the work has a political dimension. If he actually didn't know the relation, that could be a defense, but he was in a position where it's hard to believe he could not know. He definitely has some explaining to do.
 
R

rexlunae

New member
ClimateSanity said:
So you still think he knew better?
Click to expand...

I really don't know. I also don't know if it's going to be good enough if he didn't. We've successfully charged people who you might assume were simply ignorant with pretty indirect links to governments. This is a case where I'd definitely want a lawyer if I were in his shoes...and not just because it's always a good idea to be represented in a legal action.

Also, I wouldn't discount the payments from RT.

I'd also add, there's a really toxic environment nationally right now, and it's easy to be gleefully excited about the apparent impending downfall of a perceived foe. Michael Flynn spent a lot of time chanting "lock her up" at Hillary Clinton, which played well with people who hate the Clintons, over what was just slightly more than nothing. It makes it that much easier for anyone, me, a prosecutor, a judge, a juror, to want to see his actions as nefarious. Maybe he's just a confused old man who listened to too many conspiracy theorists and cut a few corners unintentionally. Maybe Trump is, too. It happens, and when it does, it's tragic more than anything else. I've never really been sure who the biggest villains in the Trump administration are. I'm pretty sure Bannon is one. The Mercers. My hope is that with Bannon off the principles committee on the NSC, there will be a slightly more normal regime in place, if not a palatable one.
 
dodge

dodge

New member
patrick jane said:
The leftist libtards are wrong to say "look, Flynn is asking for immunity, must be something big." Flynn only wants immunity because demoncrats are on a witch hunt. Flynn broke no laws and did nothing wrong.
Click to expand...

The only thing I see that got Flynn forced to resign is that he lied to the vice president.
 
dodge

dodge

New member
rexlunae said:
I'd forgive a crime committed to save the republic long before I'd seek to cover up a crime committed to betray it.
Click to expand...

So it is OK with you that a felony was committed ?

There is actual proof that Americans were UN-masked and zero PROOF of any crime to betray the country as of now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top