Two weeks on TOL for a Calvinist.

[Nathon Detroit]

And who says TOL doesn't have a positive effect eh??????

docrob57 makes a bold re-entrance to TOL, yet after two weeks the tune changes.....

docrob57 November 8th 2006

I am now willing to declare myself to be unreservedly Calvinist.

docrob57 November 25th 2006

Truthfully, I don't care if I am considered a Calvinst or not.

docrob57 November 8th 2006

I am now willing to declare myself to be unreservedly Calvinist.

docrob57 November 25th 2006

Truthfully, I don't care if I am considered a Calvinst or not.

docrob57 November 8th 2006

I am now willing to declare myself to be unreservedly Calvinist.

docrob57 November 25th 2006

Truthfully, I don't care if I am considered a Calvinst or not.

docrob57 November 8th 2006

I am now willing to declare myself to be unreservedly Calvinist.

docrob57 November 25th 2006

Truthfully, I don't care if I am considered a Calvinst or not.

We still love ya Doc :thumb:

 

[docrob57]

How nice it would be if you would actually read what was said, or at least tried to understand it. I said I did not care if I am considered (by you) a Calvinist. This in response to your continued assertions that I am not one. I am a Calvinist. I am grateful to the Spirit for having brought me to this understanding, and I continue to pray for you and the others here that you might be enlightened.

 

[Servo]

I am a Calvinist. I am grateful to the Spirit for having brought me to this understanding, and I continue to pray for you and the others here that you might be enlightened.

Apparently God does not want Knight to be enlightened right now.

 

[docrob57]

Apparently God does not want Knight to be enlightened right now.

On that we can certainly agree.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

I am grateful to the Spirit for having brought me to this understanding

Wow! How lucky you are!

 

[docrob57]

Wow! How lucky you are!

I am blessed by God in accordance with His purposes, you mock God, in accordance with His purposes. At least God's will is always done.

 

[Poly]

I am grateful to the Spirit for having brought me to this understanding, and I continue to pray for you and the others here that you might be enlightened.

Ah yes, the "elect" among the elect. Not only is there the elect that have been chosen to spend all eternity with God but then there are those among them who have been elected by God to be enlightened with this "great and deep truth of Calvinism".

It's the tip top of the cream of the crop.

:vomit:

 

[Adam_Kratt]

How nice it would be if you would actually read what was said, or at least tried to understand it. I said I did not care if I am considered (by you) a Calvinist. This in response to your continued assertions that I am not one. I am a Calvinist. I am grateful to the Spirit for having brought me to this understanding, and I continue to pray for you and the others here that you might be enlightened.

My concern with Calvinism is your predeterminism. I can not fathom how God would choose who to save and choose who to damn irregardless of who they are. With your ideological concept theoretically 2 things could happen

1. A very faithful and loving person who works hard to provide for their family. supoorts the poor feeds the hungry. goes to church every sunday and on every holiday. follows the Bible and prays several times a day. .. could be predetermined into damnation..

2. A very violent and abusive man who beats his wife and children. never goes to church burglarizes homes for his income and has murdered 200 people ... could be predetermined into salvation

can you see why Calvinistic Ideolological Predetermination.. really doesnt make any real rational or theological reality??

 

[Adam_Kratt]

I am blessed by God in accordance with His purposes, you mock God, in accordance with His purposes. At least God's will is always done.

But Dear Calvinist.... for all of your faith and good works.. how do you know if you havent been predetermined not to be one of the elect?

 

[ParsonJefferson]

How nice it would be if you would actually read what was said, or at least tried to understand it. I said I did not care if I am considered (by you) a Calvinist. This in response to your continued assertions that I am not one. I am a Calvinist. I am grateful to the Spirit for having brought me to this understanding, and I continue to pray for you and the others here that you might be enlightened.

Unfortunately, John Calvin was a rabid disciple of Augustine - who was a rabid disciple of the Gnostics. And Calvin was also not a very nice man.

So...

 

[Berean Todd]

But Dear Calvinist.... for all of your faith and good works.. how do you know if you havent been predetermined not to be one of the elect?

By our faith in Christ. None come to Him in faith unless they have been regenerated. If you are sure of your faith then you are sure of your destiny. On the other hand, your OV God could well change His mind and reject the salvation He has at this time offered you, There is nothing at all binding Him to save you ...

 

[Berean Todd]

1. A very faithful and loving person who works hard to provide for their family. supoorts the poor feeds the hungry. goes to church every sunday and on every holiday. follows the Bible and prays several times a day. .. could be predetermined into damnation..

2. A very violent and abusive man who beats his wife and children. never goes to church burglarizes homes for his income and has murdered 200 people ... could be predetermined into salvation

can you see why Calvinistic Ideolological Predetermination.. really doesnt make any real rational or theological reality??

The problem being that the unregenerate would not be a person of faith as you describe in the first scenario. Your second scenario leaves open the slim possibility of salvation but there certainly is no current visible fruits, which seems to indicate a lost person absolutely. Calvinism does not teach that we can be as bad as we want just because we are elect, we are still New Creations in Christ, and any true faith will be followed by works.

 

[lovemeorhateme]

Instead of debating theology which, frankly, will save no souls, should we not be trying to tell people the message of the Bible, that Christ came to seek and to save us? I think that many Christians seem to be missing the point.

 

[WandererInFog]

My concern with Calvinism is your predeterminism. I can not fathom how God would choose who to save and choose who to damn irregardless of who they are. With your ideological concept theoretically 2 things could happen

1. A very faithful and loving person who works hard to provide for their family. supoorts the poor feeds the hungry. goes to church every sunday and on every holiday. follows the Bible and prays several times a day. .. could be predetermined into damnation..

2. A very violent and abusive man who beats his wife and children. never goes to church burglarizes homes for his income and has murdered 200 people ... could be predetermined into salvation

This is really a complete a strawman argument in regards to Calvinism. When the Calvinist speaks of God's Irresistible Grace, this isn't just a matter of God punching someone's Get Into Heaven Ticket. They believe that the infusion of God's grace into the elect will consequently result in good works, not simply getting into heaven.

 

[Servo]

I am blessed by God in accordance with His purposes, you mock God, in accordance with His purposes. At least God's will is always done.

You sound like you are saying one is better than the other. If it is all God's will and for His purposes, how could that be?

BTW, Knight is only doing what God predestined him to do so I hope you and not blaming Knight for anything.

 

[Shalom]

You sound like you are saying one is better than the other. If it is all God's will and for His purposes, how could that be?

BTW, Knight is only doing what God predestined him to do so I hope you and not blaming Knight for anything.

:up: Yes KNIGHT really cant be responsible for any of his opinions or actions since they were all pre-planned by God.

 

[Machaira]

My concern with Calvinism is your predeterminism. I can not fathom how God would choose who to save and choose who to damn irregardless of who they are. With your ideological concept theoretically 2 things could happen

1. A very faithful and loving person who works hard to provide for their family. supoorts the poor feeds the hungry. goes to church every sunday and on every holiday. follows the Bible and prays several times a day. .. could be predetermined into damnation..

2. A very violent and abusive man who beats his wife and children. never goes to church burglarizes homes for his income and has murdered 200 people ... could be predetermined into salvation

can you see why Calvinistic Ideolological Predetermination.. really doesnt make any real rational or theological reality??

As it has already been said, this is a blatant strawman argument. As for your points 1 & 2, the Scriptures make it abundantly clear that the regenerate bear the fruit of faith unto salvation and the unregenerate bear the fruit of sin unto death. Your examples are backward and bear no resemblance to Bbilical teaching or Calvinism for that matter.

 

[Adam_Kratt]

Hmmmm.. I see... so according to Calvinist... 9/11 was in God's plan... so our anger at the 9/11 terrorist attacks is wrong.. because according to calvinistic ideology.. God wanted 9/11 to happen. It was not the free will of the terrorist to cause the plane to crash into the twin towers?.....

Also according to the Calvinist Doctrine.. it was Gods predetermined plan that Rev Haggard would go out and pay a man to have sexual relations and do drugs? It was God's predetermined plan for Congressman Foley to go out and attempt to molest minor interns in washington?????

For some reason logic and rationale just has NO concept of this everything that happenes was pre-planned by God... if this was the case..... then how can any of us be responsible for anything we do... no longer can we claim the devil made us do it.... according to calvinism.... we can just blame God

 

[Machaira]

Hmmmm.. I see... so according to Calvinist... 9/11 was in God's plan... so our anger at the 9/11 terrorist attacks is wrong.. because according to calvinistic ideology.. God wanted 9/11 to happen. It was not the free will of the terrorist to cause the plane to crash into the twin towers?.....

Also according to the Calvinist Doctrine.. it was Gods predetermined plan that Rev Haggard would go out and pay a man to have sexual relations and do drugs? It was God's predetermined plan for Congressman Foley to go out and attempt to molest minor interns in washington?????

For some reason logic and rationale just has NO concept of this everything that happenes was pre-planned by God... if this was the case..... then how can any of us be responsible for anything we do... no longer can we claim the devil made us do it.... according to calvinism.... we can just blame God

Your misunderstanding, and subsequently, your strawman misrepresentation of Calvinism is certainly extreme. I've already addressed your ridiculous notions to other people in other threads on this board. Since I only have about 50 posts here, you can pull them up quite easily and see what we really believe. Also, I dare you to show me in any calvinistic confession of faith where Calvinists believe any of the nonsense that you attempt to foist upon us. Don't worry. I know you'll do neither of these things.

 

[Evee]

I had believed the Calvinist view was.... God knew before we were born who would accept him or not.
This is not preordained by God, but the person themselves.
Everyone has the same opportunity but God knows in advance who will do what.
This is what I believed their view to be.
I am probably way off though.