kmoney said:
So the law wasn't optional for them....what all is included in the law? also, where is the line where someone will lose their salvation for not obeying the law? You said that they were "graced out" when they couldn't perfectly fulfill the law, so when is the point where they need to be "graced out"? Wouldn't it be when they commit their first sin? Then they need grace which they get by faith. But then how many sins can they commit before they need to be "graced out" again? How do they know if they are still saved? Can they ever die knowing they are saved? If their salvation was partly based on works than I don't know how they could be secure in their salvation. How would they know if they did enough? They have to obey the law, but since we all know no one can obey the law perfect, where was the line between salvation and no salvation?
Most of these questions cannot be answered by men. God is the judge and that is all we need know. God is not unjust nor will He be mocked. If a man sinned and repented then God forgave looking forward to that day when the Sacrifice would be offered up. If you died with unrepentant sin then you had problems. Would a man need be aware of every sin he committed, no. That's where having a trusting love relationship with God came in and where God's grace came in as well.
Basically if you want to know effectively how it worked all you have to do is pick a church at random (sounds like the one godrulz attends would be a good one) and attend long enough to understand their beliefs and practices and you'll probably have a pretty good idea of how it was supposed to work for the Jew before the Dispensation of Grace. If there is one thing that the average church is effective at doing, it's placing its members under the law.
Another excellent way to find answers to your questions is to read the entire New Testament except for the books written by Paul (Hebrews was not written by Paul, by the way). All of those books (including the gospels generally) were written by and to "Kingdom believers" who were members of the nation of Israel and under the Dispensation of Law. As a matter of fact, nearly all of the most prominent theological divisions in the church today come from the simple fact that some churches lean more heavily on the books of Paul and others more heavily on everything else. Of course they do so without realizing that they are doing so but that is what they are doing. If you want proof of that, just go to the book store and find a book on eternal security. If the book is arguing for eternal security their proof texts will be in the Pauline epistles and their problem texts, if the even deal with those at all, will all be anywhere but in the Pauline epistles. And conversely if you find an Arminian book that teaches that one can walk away from their faith and thus their salvation, every single one of their proof texts will be found throughout the Bible except for the Pauline epistles and the Pauline epistles will present them with all of their problem texts. That's the beautiful thing about The Plot! Once you've read it and understood what it is teaching, you suddenly have no problem texts! NONE! All the verses of the Bible say pretty much exactly what they seem to say and since the context is understood, whatever it is they say causes no difficulty for one's theology at all.
Salvation being based on works just doesn't make sense to me........
Are you suggesting that the law was optional? I can assure it was not. Moses himself was about to be killed by God's own hand because he failed to circumcise his son. Solomon, if he didn't repent, went to Hell. Why? Because he rebelled against God and failed to keep God's law. The entire nation of Israel fell dead in the wilderness except who? Those who did not yet have "the knowledge of good and evil" which Bob establishes as a colloquialism for the law. The law was very definitely not optional and if one failed to follow the law, the result was Hell.
Resting in Him,
Clete
