toldailytopic: The Wisconsin state government standoff: who's side are you on and why

[Nathon Detroit]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for February 22nd, 2011 11:08 AM

toldailytopic: The Wisconsin state government standoff: who's side are you on and why?

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[Nathon Detroit]

MADISON, Wis. – Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker warned Tuesday that state employees could start receiving layoff notices as early as next week if a bill eliminating most collective bargaining rights isn't passed soon. Walker said in a statement to The Associated Press that the layoffs wouldn't take effect immediately. He didn't say which workers would be targeted but he has repeatedly warned that up to 1,500 workers could lose their jobs by July if his proposal isn't passed. "Hopefully we don't get to that point," Walker said. Senate Democrats walked out last week rather than vote on Walker's bill that would force public workers to pay more for their benefits. He also wants to eliminate collective bargaining for nearly all workers except concerning salary increases that aren't greater than the Consumer Price Index.

- read more

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Typical union thuggery. In this economy all of us are forced to make concessions, but the union refuses and therefore they are going to lose jobs.

We simply don't have the money any longer to pay as much for labor, therefore labor needs to make cuts just like all of us in the private sector are forced to do.

 

[Cracked]

If they need to cut the budget by reducing benefits and some jobs, I can see that - as nasty as that might be. However, to abolish collective bargaining rights seems to me to be another creature altogether. Isn't possible to do one without the other?

 

[chrysostom]

If they need to cut the budget by reducing benefits and some jobs, I can see that - as nasty as that might be. However, to abolish collective bargaining rights seems to me to be another creature altogether. Isn't possible to do one without the other?

no it isn't as the governor has pointed out many times that the local governments are not able to effectively negotiate with the unions and will have to in order to deal with the reduction in funds that they will be receiving

 

[WizardofOz]

In this economy all of us are forced to make concessions, but the union refuses and therefore they are going to lose jobs.

That is not necessarily the case. The unions are ready to make concessions regarding pay, benefits, etc. Walker says there will be no negotiations. The protests are over Walkers attempt to kill collective bargaining. Collective bargaining by state employees is the central issue.

The best article I have found on the situation was an opinion piece from CNN contributor John Avlon.

States around the nation are wrestling with massive budget deficits -- and most of them stem significantly from public sector pension obligations. Walker campaigned on a commitment to confront the public sector expenses and the voters in traditionally liberal Wisconsin endorsed that agenda. ....Walker is taking aim at the underlying problem: collective bargaining and union "check-offs" that create a vicious cycle of taxpayer subsidized partisan politics and labor deals that pass the buck to the next generation. Generous labor contracts can create unsustainable debt, negotiated by one generation and paid for by another. That's what we're seeing now, as the United States faces an aging population, with growing numbers of public employees retiring to draw their pensions.

Source

And from local news Channel 3000

Walker said at a news conference in his conference room in the Capitol on Monday afternoon that he won't accept any compromises. Democrats and the unions said they would accept an increase in the cost of benefits, but not removal of collective bargaining rights. Walker rejects that idea. Senate Democrats left the state on Thursday to thwart a vote on Walker's bill and said they won't return unless the governor is willing to make concessions to the bill, something Walker has been unwilling to do.

soruce

Walker is doing what he must, but he is the one unwilling to compromise.

 

[chrysostom]

That is not necessarily the case. The unions are ready to make concessions regarding pay, benefits, etc. Walker says there will be no negotiations. The protests are over Walkers attempt to kill collective bargaining. Collective bargaining by state employees is the central issue.

The best article I have found on the situation was an opinion piece from CNN contributor John Avlon.

States around the nation are wrestling with massive budget deficits -- and most of them stem significantly from public sector pension obligations. Walker campaigned on a commitment to confront the public sector expenses and the voters in traditionally liberal Wisconsin endorsed that agenda. ....Walker is taking aim at the underlying problem: collective bargaining and union "check-offs" that create a vicious cycle of taxpayer subsidized partisan politics and labor deals that pass the buck to the next generation. Generous labor contracts can create unsustainable debt, negotiated by one generation and paid for by another. That's what we're seeing now, as the United States faces an aging population, with growing numbers of public employees retiring to draw their pensions.

you don't seem to agree with the article
could it be you are misreading it?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Here is what the governor had to say...

Scott Walker

 

[Pan Dulche]

Here are the facts:

State and local budgets are long and can seem complicated, but the simple truth is that every budget represents political decisions about what is a priority and what is not.

Walker doesn’t hesitate to cut back on workers’ rights to balance the budget, yet he leaves the bankers untouched. Walker wants to gut the right for unions to negotiate a contract, but he won’t tell the bankers to wait for interest payments. His loyalties are clear. Walker puts the bankers’ need for profits over the communities’ need for services and the workers’ need for jobs with decent wages.

A significant number of banks in Wisconsin were bailed out by our tax dollars through TARP (the government's bailout program for the biggest banks and corporations). At least five Wisconsin banks haven’t paid back the money on time. Some of the leading banking interests in the state, including those that received TARP funds, have been strong backers of Gov. Walker. They see him as a voice for their class interests.

For example, M&I is a Wisconsin-based bank with over 9,000 employees nationwide and 4,300 in southeastern Wisconsin. In November, the bank paid dividends to its big investors while at the same time failing to pay back the $1.7 billion TARP bailout.

In December, management announced that the bank would be sold. Bank employees who work at the windows and behind the scenes have no union. They face a precarious future, and many will lose their jobs in the sale and merger. Leaders in M&I structured the sale in order to protect their multi-million-dollar paychecks and golden parachutes.

It is the likes of M&I top management who have financially supported Walker. They see their class interests clearly—they want a world with no union rights.

On the one side in this struggle are the bankers. On the other are working people.

I stand with the workers!

 

[Breathe]

Seems that I have read that Wisconsin is not a 'right to work' state. If not, then perhaps that is the governor's eventual plan. It would certainly bring more jobs to the state.

 

[Pan Dulche]

“In our glorious fight for civil rights, we must guard against being fooled by false slogans, as 'right-to-work.' It provides no 'rights' and no 'works.' Its purpose is to destroy labor unions and the freedom of collective bargaining ... We demand this fraud be stopped.”

- Martin Luther King Jr.

Truth about the budget

 

[annabenedetti]

Walker is right - and he has done a terrific job of laying out the issue.

He's articulate, sure of his information, and - he doesn't need a teleprompter.

 

[ebenz47037]

Indiana democrats walk out to prevent union vote.

Doing their best imitation of Wisconsin Democrats, all but two Indiana Democrats in the state House of Representatives refused to show up for work this morning. The two who attended were there to block any attempt by Republicans to operate without a quorum.

Basically, from all I've read about this one, democrats in my state are protesting an upcoming right-to-work bill. This bill, if passed, would not require workers to pay union dues in order to get a job. According to the above article, it would give workers and employers the right to work out an agreement without the interference of unions. Of course, the unions (and the democrats) are protesting this. Our democrat representatives have said that they will have to "hide out" in a state with a democrat governor so that they're not arrested and brought back to vote.

 

[WizardofOz]

you don't seem to agree with the article

What makes you say that? It lays out the facts behind the controversy. There is really nothing to dispute.

could it be you are misreading it?

It is possible that you are misreading something. :idunno:

Here are the facts:

It doesn't address the issue, which is $-3.6 billion.

You're saying that the state should simply default on its loan commitments by paying late (he won’t tell the bankers to wait for interest payments). Paying late doesn't eliminate the debt or address the bigger problems causing the massive deficit.

I stand with the workers!

-$3.6 billion. Public employees often make more than private sector employees with greater benefits and a union to boot. It's not that public servants aren't fairly compensated.

We can't continue to pretend these deficits don't matter.

 

[kmoney]

Walker is right - and he has done a terrific job of laying out the issue.

He's articulate, sure of his information, and - he doesn't need a teleprompter.

Teleprompter? It has been a long time since I saw that tired jab. It was nice.

 

[oatmeal]

The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for February 22nd, 2011 11:08 AM

toldailytopic: The Wisconsin state government standoff: who's side are you on and why?

Governor Scott Walker is right to take the stand that he has.

His larger duty is to serve the state of Wisconsin, not the public sector unions.

The unions are greedy here. I speak of the leaders and those spoiled by the luxury contracts and benefits they have.

Their pensions are pretty much guaranteed. I have to earn my own and pay for theirs as well.

They need to get their expectations back to the taxpayer's viewpoint.

oatmeal

They

 

[annabenedetti]

Teleprompter? It has been a long time since I saw that tired jab. It was nice.

Still stings, though, doesn't it? :chuckle:

 

[serpentdove]

I'm on Walker's side. He is not a union buster. :dizzy: He's against public not private unions in his state.

 

[kmoney]

Still stings, though, doesn't it? :chuckle:

No.

:noid:

 

[agnostic_gnostic]

I believe that the middle class should have some representation. Giving ALL power to Wall Street and the international speculators rewards gambling and destroys the work ethic.