'Tis the Season to Not Always Give

[Jefferson]

'Tis the Season to Not Always Give

This is the show from Tuesday, December 13th, 2016

SUMMARY:

Bob Enyart takes calls today at the phone number that also serves as the "order line", 1-800-8Enyart (836-9278). First, Von from Aurora puts in a great call to BEL asking about his desire to donate to a local church to provide clothing for poor children who attend a local public school who are walking to school through the snow wearing just flip flops and slippers. (Really?) But Von also realizes how easily such giving backfires and harms the very people we're trying to help. Sheesh! And then Paul from Eagle, Colorado called to talk about whether or not we should focus on getting creationism taught in the public schools.

 

[6days]

Creationism taught in schools? What are others thinking about this? In another thread, I have said that we don't want anything like that mandated. We do want teachers though to feel they have the freedom to discuss different opinions / interpretations of the evidence.

 

[gcthomas]

View attachment 25060

 

[6days]

It seems a few here in TOL are fearful that students would be allowed to think outside the mainstream box. They seem opposed to even consider secular scientist articles hinting at evidence of a designer. Yet, they are more than willing to discuss all types of things for which there is no evidence such as multiverse.

 

[Tambora]

Creationism taught in schools? What are others thinking about this? In another thread, I have said that we don't want anything like that mandated. We do want teachers though to feel they have the freedom to discuss different opinions / interpretations of the evidence.

I have wondered what the curriculum for the subject of creation would consist of.
I suspect that no matter what outline they come up with, it will not be satisfactory and there may be even more complaints than it not being taught at all in school.

 

[6days]

*I have wondered what the curriculum for the subject of creation would consist of.*
I suspect that no matter what outline they come up with, it will not be satisfactory and there may be even more complaints than it not being taught at all in school.

I think you might have missed what I said..... I don't think Biblical Creation should be taught in public schools. *However, teachers and students should have the freedom to discuss pros and cons of interpretations of evidence, that are being taught.*

 

[Tambora]

I think you might have missed what I said..... I don't think Biblical Creation should be taught in public schools. *However, teachers and students should have the freedom to discuss pros and cons of interpretations of evidence, that are being taught.*

I get it, and I agree.
I was just wondering how in the world most would be agreeable to the curriculum the schools chooses to use for creation.
We have many right here at TOL that teach different versions of creation.
I mean, which one would the school system settle on?

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I get it, and I agree.
I was just wondering how in the world most would be agreeable to the curriculum the schools chooses to use for creation.
We have many right here at TOL that teach different versions of creation.
I mean, which one would the school system settle on?

Geocentrism vs heliocentrism.

 

[6days]

*I get it, and I agree.
I was just wondering how in the world most would be agreeable to the curriculum the schools chooses to use for creation.

Sorry....I'm not understanding. Public schools are not going to be agreeable to teaching Creation.*

If parents choose to home school, there are materials available that teach from the Christian worldview. But.... even still, Christian parents should still teach 'evolution'. Kids don't need to believe in common ancestry, but they do need to understand it for college entrance. (And, I suggest they understand the science very very well)

 

[6days]

View attachment 25060

So...is it ok to discuss a secular article like this in a secular classroom? https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/a-universe-made-for-me-physics-fine-tuning-and-life

 

[gcthomas]

So...is it ok to discuss a secular article like this in a secular classroom? https://cosmosmagazine.com/physics/a-universe-made-for-me-physics-fine-tuning-and-life

I discussed precisely that issue (apparent fine tuning and the multiverse hypothesis) in one of my physics classes last week and invited the students to read up on the idea and what evidence would support it. That's science. It is discussed routinely.

What I won't be doing is suggesting that the Kaang creation story of the Bushmen is a valid alternative for their studies. Or any of the other prescientific creation myths and folk tales.

 

[6days]

I discussed precisely that issue (apparent fine tuning and the multiverse hypothesis) in one of my physics classes last week and invited the students to read up on the idea and what evidence would support it. That's science. It is discussed routinely.

What I won't be doing is suggesting that the Kaang creation story of the Bushmen is a valid alternative for their studies. Or any of the other prescientific creation myths and folk tales.

Then I assume you would be open to students discussing one possibilty the article mentions... the hand of a creator

 

[gcthomas]

Then I assume you would be open to students discussing one possibilty the article mentions... the hand of a creator

Of course. But without a quantitative theory that makes rigorously testable predictions, it doesn't Gerry very far in a physics discussion.

 

[6days]

Of course. But without a quantitative theory that makes rigorously testable predictions, it doesn't Gerry very far in a physics discussion.

Wow... glad you are willing to allow discussion and consideration for 'the hand of God' being the cause.
As to being testable....the article discusses a variety of untestable ideas and concludes it is a mystery why our universe appears fine tuned for life. It is logical to consider that the reason our universe appears designed...is because it was designed.

 

[gcthomas]

Wow... glad you are willing to allow discussion and consideration for 'the hand of God' being the cause.
As to being testable....the article discusses a variety of untestable ideas and concludes it is a mystery why our universe appears fine tuned for life. It is logical to consider that the reason our universe appears designed...is because it was designed.

Oh, you've brought out the old God of the Gaps argument. Cosmologists haven't proven which of the potential explanatory theories is the best yet, so goddidit.

 

[6days]

*
Oh, you've brought out the old God of the Gaps argument. Cosmologists haven't proven which of the potential explanatory theories is the best yet, so goddidit.

As I said in a different thread to you, you seem frightened by the prospect of allowing students to consider a creator as one explanation of the evidence. *You agreed the secular article is appropriate for the classroom, discussing various beliefs / interpretations of evidence. So, you are willing to discuss that maybe we are in some type of simulation. You are willing for students to discuss that we are in only 1 of 10,500 other universes.*


Let the students also discuss the evidence that we are in a universe created "by the hand of God"...in the words of that secular article. If you are going to discuss the possibilities of countless other universes, then its ok to discuss we may live in a universe designed by Creator who designed you.*

 

[gcthomas]

As I said in a different thread to you, you seem frightened by the prospect of allowing students to consider a creator as one explanation of the evidence. *You agreed the secular article is appropriate for the classroom, discussing various beliefs / interpretations of evidence. So, you are willing to discuss that maybe we are in some type of simulation. You are willing for students to discuss that we are in only 1 of 10,500 other universes.*


Let the students also discuss the evidence that we are in a universe created "by the hand of God"...in the words of that secular article. If you are going to discuss the possibilities of countless other universes, then its ok to discuss we may live in a universe designed by Creator who designed you.*

I've already answered this question: no ideas are banned from discussion. Or from criticism

 

[6days]

I've already answered this question: no ideas are banned from discussion. Or from criticism

:thumb: