The transition from Israel to the Body

[Bob Hill]

What do you think about this?

God finished showing Israel that they had been set aside as His chosen people.

He did this in a startling manner. Peter was interrupted by God when he was preaching to the Gentiles as God had called him.

After, Peter's presentation, Paul's ministry basically started in Acts 13:46, continued in Acts 18:6, and was concluded in Acts 28:28.

Then, later, after Israel had been shown that they had been set aside, Paul was inspired by God to write Ephesians.

In Ephesians 4:3-6, Paul wrote about the unity of the Spirit.

He was writing about God’s dealings with Christians in this dispensation of grace.

He wrote, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith one baptism.”

It doesn’t say two baptisms, water and Holy Spirit! It says there “is one baptism”. One baptism.

Which one is it then?

It must be Holy Spirit baptism since the Holy Spirit is still sealing members into the body of Christ.

If you have followed my long posts, I think you can see that the gospel message started out with one baptism, water. It was necessary for salvation.

It progressed to two: water first, then, Holy Spirit baptism.
The water baptism was still necessary for salvation.

Finally, in this Dispensation of Grace, it returned to one, Holy Spirit baptism, which is now necessary for salvation.

After the rapture of the body of Christ, the circumcision gospel will be in place again.

Water baptism will become necessary for salvation again as shown in 1 Pe 3:18-22.

1 Pe 3:18-22 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Peter A V]

On almost every point,WRONG!

 

[Nathon Detroit]

On almost every point,WRONG!

How can anyone argue with that rebuttal???

 

[Bob Hill]

Peter A V,

It would be nice if you explained to me what is wrong in the posts I made.

Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

The mystery, as revealed to Paul and then explained by him, shows us some important things.

In the Body of Christ, which started with the salvation of the Apostle Paul, there is no more Jew or Gentile but a new creation.

That’s what Ephesians 2:14-16 says: For He Himself is our peace, who has made the both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, the enmity, 15 having abolished in His flesh, the law of commandments in decrees, so that He might create in Himself one new man from the two, making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile the both in one body to God through the cross, after putting to death the enmity by it.

From this, I think we can see that the enmity caused by the law was done away for the body of Christ.

In Col 2:13-16, we can see that the law God gave to Israel was done away with for the body of Christ.
Col 2:13-16 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths.

This means God’s program with Israel was set aside.

If we want to understand baptism and its relationship to us, we must first understand baptism and its relationship to Israel.

God’s view of baptism, and its history is very important.
Water baptism was spelled out for Israel under the law.
Numbers 19:9,10,17-21 Then a man who is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and store them outside the camp in a clean place; and they shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for the water of purification; it is for purifying from sin. 10 And the one who gathers the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until evening. It shall be a statute forever to the children of Israel and to the stranger who dwells among them. . . .17 And for an unclean person they shall take some of the ashes of the heifer burnt for purification from sin, and running water shall be put on them in a vessel. 18 A clean person shall take hyssop and dip it in the water, sprinkle it on the tent, on all the vessels, on the persons who were there, or on the one who touched a bone, the slain, the dead, or a grave. 19 The clean person shall sprinkle the unclean on the third day and on the seventh day; and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, wash his clothes, and bathe in water; and at evening he shall be clean. 20 But the man who is unclean and does not purify himself, that person shall be cut off from among the assembly, because he has defiled the sanctuary of the LORD. The water of purification has not been sprinkled on him; he is unclean. 21 It shall be a perpetual statute for them.

Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

Further, God told Israel in Ezekiel 36:24-27 that He would baptize them with water, cleanse them from all their filthiness and establish the new covenant with them.
Ezekiel 36:24-27 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

When we look at the OT, under the law, the priests were baptized when they were thirty years old (1 Ch 23:3). This was in preparation for their consecration as priests (Ex 28:41-29:9).

God had promised to make all of Israel a kingdom of priests.
Exodus 19:5,6, Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine. 6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation. These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel.

Therefore, when John the Baptist came, he baptized great crowds from all the tribes of Israel for the Lord not just from the tribe of Levi. Mat 3:5,6 Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him 6 and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins.

God wanted Israel to be a kingdom of priests according to His prophecy of Exodus 19:5,6. Because John was baptizing with authority, the whole nation of Israel went out to him to be baptized.

In Luke 3:15, we see that they were expecting Christ, that is the Messiah: “Now as the people were in expectation, and all reasoned in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not.”

Remember, God had promised in Eze 36 to sprinkle them with water to make them clean.

When John came as the forerunner of Christ, he was preaching that his baptism was for the remission of sins.
Mark 1:4 John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
Luke 3:3 And he went into all the region around the Jordan, preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Because of the information in Exodus 19:6 we see that, by his baptism, John was preparing the nation of Israel to be a kingdom of priests. “And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation”.

That’s why the believing Jews were called a royal priesthood by Peter when he wrote to them in 1 Peter 1:1; 2:5,9 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.

Therefore, I think we can see that water baptism was mandated for Israel in Numbers 19 and would result in a whole nation of priests according to 1 Pe 2:5,9.

I think they were baptized by John the Baptist for the forgiveness of sins as we just saw in Mark 1:4 and Luke 3:3. This baptism was associated with the Messianic kingdom promised to Israel as we saw from Ezekiel 36:24-28.

After Christ’s Ascension and the day of Pentecost, we see that water baptism was still essential for salvation.

We can see that water baptism continued after Pentecost because God was offering the kingdom to Israel. If Israel repented, God would send Christ back according to Acts 3:19-21.
Acts 3:19-21 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, 20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Because God was still dealing with Israel on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:38, water baptism was still necessary for salvation.

Peter commanded water baptism for the remission of sins: Acts 2:38 “Then Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.’”

Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

Later, when Paul was seized and was about to be led into the barracks, he asked the commander for permission to speak to the Jewish crowd in Jerusalem.

During his talk, in Acts 22:16 he explained how Ananias had commanded him to be water baptized to wash away his sins. “And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

Finally, to show how baptism is related to Israel, we see from Heb. 9:10-14 that water baptism would be imposed on Israel until the time of reformation. That’s when Christ would set up the kingdom for Israel. Heb 9:10. “concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings [Greek, baptisms], and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.”

I want to return to Acts 2:38, “Then Peter said to them, ‘Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.’”

We see at that point, there was an added dimension.

For the first time, there were now 2 baptisms.
After a Jew believed and was water baptized, as I just showed in Acts 2:38, he would receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

For the first time, there were two baptisms, water baptism, first, then Holy Spirit baptism.

But then came the dispensational turning point where we, the Gentiles are included as equals.

The Apostle Paul was saved in Acts 9. He was commissioned by the ascended Christ to be the Apostle of the Gentiles.

God also showed Peter that there was a dispensational change.

Here’s what happened.

After Paul got saved, God gave Peter a vision in Acts 10:9-17.

When Israel was made God’s chosen people, God made certain animals clean and unclean to them according to Leviticus 20:22-26.

In Peter’s vision in Acts 10, Peter was shown that there were no more clean and unclean animals for Israel.

Therefore, by this vision, God showed Peter that Israel was no longer His chosen people.

However, He did not show Peter the mystery and its ramifications.

God would reveal this only to the Apostle Paul.

He also did not show Peter what the new method of salvation would be.

That’s why Peter preached the same message Christ had given him from the beginning, the circumcision gospel.

Acts 10:34-37 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ; He is Lord of all; 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached.”

This gospel that Peter preached, was the same gospel of faith plus works and endurance for salvation which Christ taught while on earth in Mat 24:13,14.
Mat 24:13,14 “But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.”

But, to Peter’s surprise, while he was still preaching, the Holy Spirit baptized them before they were water baptized.

God showed him that water baptism was no longer necessary for salvation.

Now, here’s the reason why I think God changed the program of salvation.

God started something new.

The body of Christ had started with Paul’s salvation.

God had a new plan or method called the Dispensation of Grace. How did the Holy Spirit show this new plan? The Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word while Peter was still preaching, before they were baptized.
Look at this: Acts 10:44,45 “While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.”
The Holy Spirit’s work here would convince the circumcision believers.

Wow! God had opened the door of salvation to the Gentiles.

Remember, at Paul’s conversion in Acts 9, Paul was sent to the Gentiles.

Shortly after Paul’s conversion, the two baptisms of Acts 2:38 were reversed for the first time. Water baptism was performed after Holy Spirit baptism.

Now, the Holy Spirit baptism was the one necessary for salvation. Water baptism became secondary for the first time.

We’re not even sure that God wanted these new Christians to be baptized. Peter did a number of things here for the simple reason that the Lord had previously commanded them.

Now, why did these changes take place?

I believe it was because Paul was converted, given a new stewardship called the dispensation of the mystery, and a new gospel, the uncircumcision gospel.

When Paul was sent out on his missionary journeys, we find that he baptized at least Crispus, Gaius, Stephanus’ household, Lydia and her household, and the jailer and his household.

Why did Paul baptize these people? We don’t know for sure. But it seems that because Ananias had commanded Paul to be baptized, he carried on the practice until God revealed to him that he was not sent to baptize.

So, even in the dispensation of grace there were two baptisms for a while. But then it was revealed to Paul according to 1 Co 1:17, that water baptism was not part of his commission. “For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.”

After that, Paul no longer baptized.

But we must remember that water baptism had definitely been part of the circumcision apostles’ commission (Mat 28:18-20; Mk 16:15-18).

Bob Hill

 

[billwald]

The problem with your analysis is that then the Church is God's "Plan B."

>After Christ’s Ascension and the day of Pentecost, we see that water baptism was still essential for salvation.

No, bapitism welcome's a person into the Church on Earth. It has nothing to do with the next life.

Person "gets saved" but on the way to church to get baptized he is squished by a bus. Person goes to Hell for lack of baptism?

 

[Quasar1011]

The problem with your analysis is that then the Church is God's "Plan B."

The Church was never God's "Plan B"!

Redeeming only Israel was too small a thing for God to accomplish. I know this because we have a conversation between the Father and Son recorded in the Old Testament. Look at what the Father tells the Son:

Isaiah 49:1-6
Listen to me, you islands;
hear this, you distant nations:
Before I was born the LORD called me;
from my birth he has made mention of my name.
He made my mouth like a sharpened sword,
in the shadow of his hand he hid me;
he made me into a polished arrow
and concealed me in his quiver.
He said to me, "You are my servant,
Israel, in whom I will display my splendor."
But I said, "I have labored to no purpose;
I have spent my strength in vain and for nothing.
Yet what is due me is in the LORD's hand,
and my reward is with my God."
And now the LORD says—
he who formed me in the womb to be his servant
to bring Jacob back to him
and gather Israel to himself,
for I am honored in the eyes of the LORD
and my God has been my strength-
he says:
"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

 

[themuzicman]

Wow... where to start?

What do you think about this?

God finished showing Israel that they had been set aside as His chosen people.

He did this in a startling manner. Peter was interrupted by God when he was preaching to the Gentiles as God had called him.

After, Peter's presentation, Paul's ministry basically started in Acts 13:46, continued in Acts 18:6, and was concluded in Acts 28:28.

No person ever received eternal life through the Old Covenant. Israel's covenant with God was to have a people consecrated in the earth to produce the Messiah and ultimately crucify Him in a final act of rebellion against God, a pattern established over 1500 years of their existence.

From Abel to present, salvation has been by faith, as we see in Hebrews 11. All were seeking a heavenly dwelling based upon the original promise of God in Genesis 3:15.

And Christ's purpose in coming was a mission to Israel, but it wasn't a mission of mercy, per se. It was, as the story of the wicked vineyard workers, God sending His son to them as their Messiah, and to have them reject Him as they did all the other prophets.

All of this is foretold in the Old Testament.

Thus, the church started in Genesis 3:15. Faith has always been the "program" of salvation. Those who came before Christ lived in hope of seeing His day, and then seeing the resurrection (as Jesus said of Abraham), and those who come after look back to Christ's sacrifice, but still look forward in the hope of the resurrection.

Then, later, after Israel had been shown that they had been set aside, Paul was inspired by God to write Ephesians.

In Ephesians 4:3-6, Paul wrote about the unity of the Spirit.

He was writing about God’s dealings with Christians in this dispensation of grace.

Minor problem, here. Gentiles and Jews alike are saved through the New Covenant. Christ established it before His death, and Paul affirms it to the Corinthians in his first letter to them.

He wrote, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith one baptism.”

It doesn’t say two baptisms, water and Holy Spirit! It says there “is one baptism”. One baptism.

Which one is it then?

Well, this is where the unfortunate decision of the KJV translators isn't helpful. "Baptism" is a transliteration of the Greek word "Baptizw." The word actually means "Dip, immerse or wash."

Unfortunately, we've given a special setting for this word, and so have created problems for ourselves.

Paul is best understood as saying "one washing" or "one immersing", here, in which we are immersed into the body of Christ through indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and symbolized by our unity with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection through water immersion, as Paul speaks of in Romans 6.

Thus, Paul isn't speaking of a particular ceremony or happening, but speaking of unity in the body through salvation.

It must be Holy Spirit baptism since the Holy Spirit is still sealing members into the body of Christ.

Again, if we unpack the meaning of "baptism", there is no need to make this distinction.

If you have followed my long posts, I think you can see that the gospel message started out with one baptism, water. It was necessary for salvation.

Not sure where you get this from. It is a ceremony similar to communion, except that you only do it once.

It progressed to two: water first, then, Holy Spirit baptism.
The water baptism was still necessary for salvation.

Finally, in this Dispensation of Grace, it returned to one, Holy Spirit baptism, which is now necessary for salvation.

After the rapture of the body of Christ, the circumcision gospel will be in place again.

Galatians clearly says that any gospel that is not Paul's gospel is a false gospel, so there cannot be two.

Water baptism will become necessary for salvation again as shown in 1 Pe 3:18-22.

1 Pe 3:18-22 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

Notice that Peter qualifies "baptism" in terms of standing justified before God, just as we are. Peter never says that baptism is required for salvation, and certainly not here.

Thus, there is one gospel, one "immersion", one Lord and Master of all.

Muz

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Muz : "And Christ's purpose in coming was a mission to Israel, but it wasn't a mission of mercy, per se. It was, as the story of the wicked vineyard workers, God sending His son to them as their Messiah, and to have them reject Him as they did all the other prophets."

Jesus led a new nation of Israel out of apostate idolatrous Israel. This is the church spoken of in Matthew 16...much like Moses led a nation of Israel, a church in the wilderness, out of Egypt.

Moses had a house, and Jesus had a house. All Israelites. Hebrews 3:5-6

 

[themuzicman]

True enough, however, as Paul clearly points out in Romans 11, only a remnant are saved, just as happened in the time of Elijah, where God preserved 7,000 who hadn't bowed a knee to Ba'al.

In the same way, a remnant, a few Jews who believed are the fulfillment of the promise to preserve Israel, just as happened in Elijah's time (and happened in the Exlile), and this new body, comprised of Jew and Gentile, formed in the New Covenant are now the people of God.

As for Moses' "house", Jesus condemned those who continued to embrace Moses in John 6:30-40.

Muz

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

True enough, however, as Paul clearly points out in Romans 11, only a remnant are saved, just as happened in the time of Elijah, where God preserved 7,000 who hadn't bowed a knee to Ba'al.

In the same way, a remnant, a few Jews who believed are the fulfillment of the promise to preserve Israel, just as happened in Elijah's time (and happened in the Exlile), and this new body, comprised of Jew and Gentile, formed in the New Covenant are now the people of God.

As for Moses' "house", Jesus condemned those who continued to embrace Moses in John 6:30-40.

Muz

Jesus' house was all Hebrews, made up of those who believed and were baptized with the Spirit from Acts 2-7...or so.

Progressive revelation - Israel could remain in Moses' house until the one greater
than Moses came.

 

[themuzicman]

Jesus' house was all Hebrews, made up of those who believed and were baptized with the Spirit from Acts 2-7...or so.

Progressive revelation - Israel could remain in Moses' house until the one greater
than Moses came.

Well... yes and no. Israel had to do more than obey the rituals of the Old Covenant to receive eternal life. They had to believe just as everyone else did. A Jewish person born into the Old Covenant was corporate elected into that covenant by virtue of birth, but Jesus clearly told Nicodemus (before He died) that one had to be "born again", more specifically be a child of the Promise, not just of the flesh, to receive eternal life, and that faith was required.

And, if you were born Jewish, and you believed in God, you believed (before Christ came) that you were the covenant people of God and lived the covenant life.

But that covenant life wasn't what saved you.

Muz

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Well... yes and no. Israel had to do more than obey the rituals of the Old Covenant to receive eternal life. They had to believe just as everyone else did. A Jewish person born into the Old Covenant was corporate elected into that covenant by virtue of birth, but Jesus clearly told Nicodemus (before He died) that one had to be "born again", more specifically be a child of the Promise, not just of the flesh, to receive eternal life, and that faith was required.

And, if you were born Jewish, and you believed in God, you believed (before Christ came) that you were the covenant people of God and lived the covenant life.

But that covenant life wasn't what saved you.

Muz

Into the covenant by birth or by circumcision?

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

So, here we see that for "Moses' house" they were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. The cloud was the "presence of God" for lack of a better term. The sea is the Red Sea.

In Acts 2, we see for "Jesus' house", they were baptized in the name of Jesus
in water (sea) and with the Spirit (cloud).

I can't see how those who were not baptized with the Spirit, such as JTB, could
be in Jesus' house or his "bride".

 

[themuzicman]

Into the covenant by birth or by circumcision?

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

So, here we see that for "Moses' house" they were baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. The cloud was the "presence of God" for lack of a better term. The sea is the Red Sea.

That's because they became the covenant people of God (Old Covenant) after going through the Red Sea, as Sinai. The Covenant, at that point, was corporate though birth, as it is established with them and their seed.

Circumcision was just a sign of that covenant.

In Acts 2, we see for "Jesus' house", they were baptized in the name of Jesus
in water (sea) and with the Spirit (cloud).

I can't see how those who were not baptized with the Spirit, such as JTB, could
be in Jesus' house or his "bride".

In Acts 2, the Church was already established. The coming of the Holy Spirit empowered them to execute their mission.

Muz

 

[Zeke]

What do you think about this?

God finished showing Israel that they had been set aside as His chosen people.

He did this in a startling manner. Peter was interrupted by God when he was preaching to the Gentiles as God had called him.

After, Peter's presentation, Paul's ministry basically started in Acts 13:46, continued in Acts 18:6, and was concluded in Acts 28:28.

Then, later, after Israel had been shown that they had been set aside, Paul was inspired by God to write Ephesians.

In Ephesians 4:3-6, Paul wrote about the unity of the Spirit.

He was writing about God’s dealings with Christians in this dispensation of grace.

He wrote, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith one baptism.”

It doesn’t say two baptisms, water and Holy Spirit! It says there “is one baptism”. One baptism.

Which one is it then?

It must be Holy Spirit baptism since the Holy Spirit is still sealing members into the body of Christ.

If you have followed my long posts, I think you can see that the gospel message started out with one baptism, water. It was necessary for salvation.

It progressed to two: water first, then, Holy Spirit baptism.
The water baptism was still necessary for salvation.

Finally, in this Dispensation of Grace, it returned to one, Holy Spirit baptism, which is now necessary for salvation.

After the rapture of the body of Christ, the circumcision gospel will be in place again.

Water baptism will become necessary for salvation again as shown in 1 Pe 3:18-22.

1 Pe 3:18-22 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us - baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

Hi Bob.
The types and shadows were never able to save, or wash away sins, water was but a similitude of many used by the Lord to reveal a future work only he could do, John 4:13-Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: which was true of all the OT types and shadow none could fulfill because of the leaven of sin, coruptable elements can't regenerate it self or other fallen elements only the leaven of regeneration could which was Christ blood.

Hebrews 9:23-It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in heavens should be purified with these, (verse 19-blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hysop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,) but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these,

Hebrew 10:1-For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

So regeneration starts in the heavens where the rebellion of lucifer and those that followed him cause the coruption, and judgement started in the house of the Lord first which was the in heavens where Christ offered a better sacrifice,

Any part that man would play would be leaven from unrightousness and never did count towards salvation only faith in the future promises of God, only His I wills and WILL Is, ever could make anyone stand in what ever calling they were in, then or now.
Gen 12:1-I WILL, vs 2-I WILL vs 3-I WILL, vs 7-WILL I, 13:15-WILL I, vs 16-I WILL ect.........

God Bless Zeke.

 

[billwald]

Seems to me that the HS bapism is equivalent to the regeneration that preceeds conversion.