The Time Machine -- A Question of Curiosity

[JayHoover]

A time machine is invented. You step into it, and select a period of time just before and just after what we consider BCE and CE. You select a place: Palestine, in and around Jerusalem.

You can stop and go as you choose, so you sit in this machine (which is invisible to others) and you scan for events. You also have a Hebrew / Latin / Aramaic translator onboard so you can both witness events and understand them in context.

This is what you learn:

There are numerous messiahs running around, and one of them, a certain erstwhile carpenter from Nazareth named Yeshua, is gaining particular reknown. However, before he can get too powerful, he is arrested, crucified as was the order of the day, and dies. His body is left to the crows, and is picked apart, just like any other criminal of the day.

You learn his followers then embark on a plan to elevate him to a deity, and he becomes Jesus Christ. As the years roll on, the legend grows and takes hold.

That's the scenario -- nothing more or less. The question is, in the light of such a scenario, what would you as a Christian do? In short, if the central tenets of your belief system was proved false conclusively (and I understand that may not be possible, but hypotheticaly if it were), what would you do? would you still believe or realign your beliefs?

Thanks for answering.

 

[Granite]

Possible responses:

a) we KNOW our faith is true; hence this scenario is an absurdity

b) it's a parallel universe where God revealed himself in different ways

c) the time machine, etc., is a demonic hoax

d) you're deceived and didn't actually see JESUS on the cross

e) it's a test from God--divine deception to see how strong your faith really is

 

[1PeaceMaker]

Originally posted by granite1010

Possible responses:

a) we KNOW our faith is true; hence this scenario is an absurdity

b) it's a parallel universe where God revealed himself in different ways

c) the time machine, etc., is a demonic hoax

d) you're deceived and didn't actually see JESUS on the cross

e) it's a test from God--divine deception to see how strong your faith really is

:down: :nono: :chuckle:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

g)God is LOVE. Therefore, legend or reality, Christ is the story of the ultimate revelation of love, and therefore I would still be moved by it, and recognize the Spirit of Christ in others who display the same kind of love.

It would be like the ultimate touching parable!

HOWEVER, there is NO chance that the story is untrue, therefore you asked a "what-if-pigs-could-fly" scenario.

 

[Turbo]

Re: The Time Machine -- A Question of Curiosity

Originally posted by JayHoover

In short, if the central tenets of your belief system was proved false conclusively (and I understand that may not be possible, but hypotheticaly if it were), what would you do? would you still believe or realign your beliefs?

Thanks for answering.

I'd cease to be a Christian, of course.

• But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 4And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 1 Corinthians 15:13-19

Thankfully, there is overwhelming evidence that Christ did in fact rise from the dead. That is why I became a Christian to begin with.

 

[JayHoover]

Re: Re: The Time Machine -- A Question of Curiosity

Re: Re: The Time Machine -- A Question of Curiosity

Originally posted by Turbo

I'd cease to be a Christian, of course.

That's a very honest answer. Thank you.

One follow-up, since two of you have stated categorically that there's no chance the story is untrue (you indicating there's "overwhelming evidence"):

Is this overwhelming evidence strictly based upon the bible, or is the evidence to be found elsewhere (and I don't mean "because we found Herod's palace we therefore know Jesus ressurrected" -- I mean solid extra-biblical evidence).

Thanks again.

I hope others will give their answer as well to the "what-if" scenario.

 

[Granite]

Re: Re: The Time Machine -- A Question of Curiosity

Re: Re: The Time Machine -- A Question of Curiosity

Originally posted by Turbo

I'd cease to be a Christian, of course.

• But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 4And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up--if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 1 Corinthians 15:13-19

Thankfully, there is overwhelming evidence that Christ did in fact rise from the dead. That is why I became a Christian to begin with.

I wouldn't call whatever "evidence" you're thinking of "overwhelming," but of course faith doesn't need proof.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Re: The Time Machine -- A Question of Curiosity

Originally posted by JayHoover
This is what you learn:

There are numerous messiahs running around, and one of them, a certain erstwhile carpenter from Nazareth named Yeshua, is gaining particular reknown. However, before he can get too powerful, he is arrested, crucified as was the order of the day, and dies. His body is left to the crows, and is picked apart, just like any other criminal of the day.

You learn his followers then embark on a plan to elevate him to a deity, and he becomes Jesus Christ. As the years roll on, the legend grows and takes hold.

Well... first off... I would reject my Christian faith.

Then... I would ask all of Jesus followers why on earth they are going to allow themselves to be put to death in extremely painful ways all on account of their own lie. :shocked:

After that... I would start my search for the real God whom created things in the same manner that the God of the Bible did.

 

[Granite]

"Then... I would ask all of Jesus followers why on earth they are going to allow themselves to be put to death in extremely painful ways all on account of their own lie."

As the Mormons did, for example.

People are willing to die for quite a lot, as history shows.

 

[Turbo]

Which Mormons died defending their own lies?

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Turbo

Which Mormons died defending their own lies?

The Smith brothers, for one. For another the early Mormons endured persecution, hardship, and government harrassment. The leadership obviously thought it was worth putting up with for a reason.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Originally posted by granite1010

"Then... I would ask all of Jesus followers why on earth they are going to allow themselves to be put to death in extremely painful ways all on account of their own lie."

As the Mormons did, for example.

People are willing to die for quite a lot, as history shows.

People often will die for believing a lie.

However... people almost never will die for a lie they created themselves, the very lie that got themselves into trouble in the first place.

This unlikely event becomes even more unlikely when applied to a large group of people - all in on the lie.... all willing to die painful deaths for it.

 

[SOTK]

I agree with Knight and Turbo. I would cease being a Christian, however, I would refuse to believe that there was not a God. In other words, like Knight, I would continue searching for the God who made the universe and all things in it. Reason dictates (to my way of thinking) that the opposite is absurd. I do not believe life "just happened" nor that "humans do not have a greater purpose" than to "just exist". These thoughts or beliefs are a big part of what lead me to believing in the God of the Bible and that Christ is the Truth. Also, certain pieces of scripture (like the one Turbo cited) further solidified my beliefs in Jesus being God. In other words, "Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and Life".

 

[JayHoover]

Some good replies. I hope more will post (this is a bump and a thank you combined!).

 

[Lighthouse]

As I see it, I have all the proof I need that He has risen. For I have been resurrected with Him. I would think, actually, that if He had not I wouldn't be a Christian in the first place.

 

[Frank Ernest]

Re: The Time Machine -- A Question of Curiosity

Originally posted by JayHoover

A time machine is invented. [snip]
There are numerous messiahs running around, and one of them, a certain erstwhile carpenter from Nazareth named Yeshua, is gaining particular reknown. However, before he can get too powerful, he is arrested, crucified as was the order of the day, and dies. His body is left to the crows, and is picked apart, just like any other criminal of the day.

You learn his followers then embark on a plan to elevate him to a deity, and he becomes Jesus Christ. As the years roll on, the legend grows and takes hold.

That's the scenario -- nothing more or less. The question is, in the light of such a scenario, what would you as a Christian do? In short, if the central tenets of your belief system was proved false conclusively (and I understand that may not be possible, but hypotheticaly if it were), what would you do? would you still believe or realign your beliefs?

Thanks for answering.

Strictly adhering to your scenario, there was no resurrection, ergo, no reason for me to believe that Yeshua was the Christ. So I would not be a "Christian." However, I would still have the scriptures and the prophecies to continue searching.

I'll ditto :SOTK:

 

[Lighthouse]

I still say that I wouldn't have become a Christian if it weren't true.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Knight

People often will die for believing a lie.

However... people almost never will die for a lie they created themselves, the very lie that got themselves into trouble in the first place.

This unlikely event becomes even more unlikely when applied to a large group of people - all in on the lie.... all willing to die painful deaths for it.

But the Smith brothers did. Jim Jones offed himself, so did David Koresh.

It can and does happen all the time. It's a question of how many people you take with you...

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by lighthouse

I still say that I wouldn't have become a Christian if it weren't true.

Irrational.

You FEEL as you though you've changed, hence, Christianity must be true--based on your personal, subjective experience.

Buddhists the world over feel just as certain about their spirituality.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Sozo

If Jesus had not been raised, we wouldn't even be here having this conversation.

So because people discuss Apollo, does that mean he was/is the sun god?